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Guest
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 Posted: Tue, Oct 28 2008, 11:16 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Guest wrote: | Will this help?
From the WP article:
"Holtz-Eakin "read a different interview to the one I heard," said Dennis Hutchinson, a University of Chicago law professor who joined Obama in the panel discussion. "Obama said that redistribution of wealth issues need to be decided by legislatures, not by the courts. That is what a progressive income tax is all about." |
Correct, and a progressive income tax that ends up increasing the burdens is a redistribution of wealth. That's my concern that the 250K will not be the limit, but the starting point as the budget deficit is so great and the problems so bad with the economy that he won't get his social programs off the ground without lowering the 250K cap.
We're in agreement that he sees income taxes as a means to redistributing the wealth and that's what he wants. The only question is whether the voter at the end of the day feels confident the 250K will be it or whether it will be lowered. There's no doubt that Obama feels there is an obligation to tax the higher wage earners more and use it for the less priveleged.
My personal circumstance is that it's the middle wage earners who should be helped. Those that worked hard, have families and are making enough to live and own a home, but not enough to save for college or retirement. The poorest under 80K have programs already available and those over 250K are comfortable. |
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Steve Forbes
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| Posted: Tue, Oct 28 2008, 11:32 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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Just in case your missed what Steve Forbes had to say:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Joining us live is the president and CEO of Forbes, Steve Forbes. Steve, nice to see you. And the last thing that Senator Obama said was about spreading the wealth. Was that a gaffe? Am I maybe taking that out of context? He didn't really mean a redistribution of the wealth, or do you think that -- or does he stand by that proposition that we should redistribute the wealth, or spread it around, I think, was the word he used?
STEVE FORBES, PRESIDENT AND CEO, FORBES INC.: Well, I think he does have a mentality that there's sort of a fixed pie out there and that you can -- it's really a matter of how you slice the thing up. And what he doesn't have is what Ronald Reagan had, John Kennedy had, and that is the idea that you can expand the pie and that people can have more, that it doesn't have to be redistribution.
But if you look at his whole array of tax credits, many of which are simply Welfare payments called tax credits, if you look to his tax -- increasing taxes on people with capital, who provide the seed capital for jobs creation in this economy, it really is sort of a status (ph) mechanistic approach that really doesn't (ph) realize that we have a -- can have a dynamic economy. That's how you create jobs, get innovation. And - - but he -- I think he does have that mentality that there's only so much there and it's just a matter of how you divvy it up.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,437446,00.html |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 6:50 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Quote: | | That's my concern that the 250K will not be the limit, but the starting point ... |
In July, it was $250K. In an October ad, Obama said $200K. Recently, Biden had it down to $142K. So obviously, $250K was just a starting point. Let's see how low it goes! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 7:25 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Instead of raising taxes as he says, why not institute a flat tax no deductions. 15% across the board. If you make 10,000 you pay 1500, if you make 1,000,000 you pay 150,000. That's the only fair way. But, then no one seems to think fair. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 8:13 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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In the current environment, most middle class people (if not all) will gladly pay more tax if they can earn $250K a year or even $150K year. The current problem is that a lot of middle class people don't even have a job.
The McCain's "redistribution" of wealth spin really does not work in the current environment. Bill Clinton got it right: "it's the economy, stupid." |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 8:45 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Quote: | | STEVE FORBES, PRESIDENT AND CEO, FORBES INC.: Well, I think he does have a mentality that there's sort of a fixed pie out there and that you can -- it's really a matter of how you slice the thing up. And what he doesn't have is what Ronald Reagan had, John Kennedy had, and that is the idea that you can expand the pie and that people can have more, that it doesn't have to be redistribution. |
Yes, expanding the pie is much better than reslicing the pie. This idea will work if 1) the pie is not shrinking fast and 2) many people are not in fear of losing their slice.
The wealthy are scared that the pie is shrinking fast, and the no-so-wealthy are in fear of losing their slice. McCain needs to address the fears fast. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 9:52 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Guest wrote: | | Quote: | | That's my concern that the 250K will not be the limit, but the starting point ... |
In July, it was $250K. In an October ad, Obama said $200K. Recently, Biden had it down to $142K. So obviously, $250K was just a starting point. Let's see how low it goes! |
Nice fiction. You people need to start reading credible sources instead of those conservative-sourced fiction ones. Neither of them have ever said people below $250k will net have tax increases. Cite the credible sources. Plus, independent groups have analyzied the programs and confirmed where the net tax starts to increase instead of decrease and confirmed it was above $250k.
BTW, did you hear where McCain said the other day that he's really going to increase taxes for the middle class? You didn't? We'll its from the same source as your statement... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 9:55 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Guest wrote: | | Instead of raising taxes as he says, why not institute a flat tax no deductions. 15% across the board. If you make 10,000 you pay 1500, if you make 1,000,000 you pay 150,000. That's the only fair way. But, then no one seems to think fair. |
This is what I keep saying. If McCain really believed in no re-distribution of wealth, he would be pushing something like this instead of trying to pretend is progressive re-distribution is fundamentally different because it doesn't hurt 5% of top earners versus Obama's which helps 95% of earners more than McCain's... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 10:14 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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In the last few days the quotes are as follows....
Sunday 10/26 Obama: anyone that makes below $250,000 a year will not see an increase in taxes
Monday 10/27 Obama: If you make less then $200,000 a year you are going to see a tax cut
Tuesday 10/28 Biden: Anyone that makes below $150,000 a year will get a tax cut.
All facts, where does it end? |
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Ph.D.
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 11:04 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Well, I have made up my mind to vote for Obama-Biden and Win Cody in Nov. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 11:27 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| This is the article we're supposed to read? Even Fox refers to Biden's $150,000 comment as a "Freudian slip," claiming that although he didn't mean to say it he really, deep down, believed it. I don't know - getting a number wrong after you've said it hundreds of times seems like a mistake to me. When Fox starts claiming to read people's minds we're all in trouble... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 11:38 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| In terms of the 200/250. It will be 200K for singles and 250K for married people. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 11:47 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Quote: | | Cite the credible sources. Plus, independent groups have analyzied the programs and confirmed where the net tax starts to increase instead of decrease and confirmed it was above $250k. |
That's the problem. Who's credible and who's not? There is so much misinformation out there about all of the candidates and their plans, it will never be sorted out before the election. It seems that no matter where you look, one analysis says one thing and another analysis refutes it with different data, with both analyses coming from "credible" sources.
And how do we ever even know what's credible? Even years from now when history books are being written, a lot of it will be different people's perceptions of the facts, you can twist statistics any way you want and there are always two sides (at least) to the story. It is very hard to get to the truth. Too many people put opinion down and state it as fact, media and authors included. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 11:50 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Quote: | | Well, I have made up my mind to vote for Obama-Biden and Win Cody in Nov. |
I will be supporting McCain-Palin and Win Cody. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 11:53 am EDT Post subject: Re: Obama Redistribution of Wealth tape uncovered |
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| Quote: | | Instead of raising taxes as he says, why not institute a flat tax no deductions. 15% across the board. If you make 10,000 you pay 1500, if you make 1,000,000 you pay 150,000. That's the only fair way. But, then no one seems to think fair. |
I'm with you in that I think a flat tax is fair. The problem becomes the lobbyists and the tax accountants and all the other people who will lose their jobs if there is a flat tax. |
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