Town Hall clock and nearby road condition
Post new topic   Reply to topic    [http://cranbury.info] -> Radom Thoughts | Sports | Kitchen Sink
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 3:57 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
This is a bit off topic, but related:

Have you wondered why buildings have Emergency Exits (alarm will sound if used) that are never used during non-emergency situations?


The number and location of emergency exits -- whether for general use or only for emergency -- is dictated by code. X number of maximum occupancy requires Y number of exits, etc.

As to why they are sometimes deemed only for use in emergencies, this usually has to do with security or controlling access. The school for example wants to keep everyone flowing through their main entrance during regular school sessions. So designating some exits emergency only and putting and alarm on them helps assure most people honor the requested egress path and assures they are alerted if someone doesn't. They wouldn't want kids sneaking out the emergency exists for example...
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 4:13 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
The school has always needed a second entrance, and it always will. My vote goes to Park Place. Schoolhouse Lane is a bottleneck in the morning, that's a fact, potentially dangerous, not only because of traffic, but have you noticed that buses look like they're going to fall over as they turn the corner? (because of the dip in the road) an emergency vehicle couldn't get through in the morning either. It seems that traffic flow going "in" to the school parking lot can easily be rerouted (remove the tree island) go "in" on Schoolhouse Lane right in front of the old gym doors (now on your left) or further down to the annex, drop kids off, then go out to the right, across the field thru Park Place. Schoolhouse can still be a two-way street, but you'd have to cross back across incoming traffic, and probably shouldn't be allowed during drop-off time. I always thought the ballfield was in the wrong spot anyway, but now I think the ballfield should just go away. The fences can be taken down and reused/recycled somewhere else, possibly the middle ballfield in Village Park. Use that money towards the new access road. I don't believe it costs over 2 million dollars....


Since the cost was 2 million 8 years ago, I think it will be quite a bit more.
Back to top
PedalPower
Guest





PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 4:48 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Not to add a match to a tinderbox here, but in theory the only vehicles that should be using Schoolhouse Lane before/after school are the school buses and those cars belonging to the teachers and/or town hall workers. That is, students who don't qualify for busing "technically" live close enough to school to walk or ride their bikes. Otherwise they qualify for busing.

The traffic problem around the school is being compounded -- and on a significant scale -- by two deviations to the theoretical. First, it seems many students who are considered "walkers" actually get driven to school. Second, it seems at least a few "bus" students also get driven to school rather than take the bus. The root cause issue here is not that many parents choose to drive their kids to school. It really is that Cranbury, including (or especially) its school complex, was built for the pre-automobile age. The residents of today's Cranbury, like just about any suburb in America, are deeply rooted in the automobile age. That is, it is not the norm in modern suburban society to walk from point A to point B. You drive. Again, this is meta-level issue in the United States, not a criticism of Cranbury or its residents. (I'll readily admit I drive my kids to school a few times each week.)

As much as I'd like to see the problem addressed by encouraging more kids to walk or ride their bikes, the reality is that for many it's probably not safe enough. That is, unless you live in the Village proper, there are a number of very busy roads kids have to traverse or walk/ride alongside to get to school.

Therefore, the question is whether Cranbury should embrace the modern automobile society and build a few more roads into the school complex, or whether hold fast to its historical roots and challenge its citizens to solve such problems as this using other means.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 5:28 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Is there a code/regulation that dictates the number of access roads to a school building?
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 5:58 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

The old Town Hall was built in the pre-automobile age. The school that is used today was built in the early 1960's.

I agree with your statements, but I would add that school lane is a 2 lane road not a one lane road and as such incoming traffic including emergency vehicles can get in. The real issue as I see it is the back up and delay in exiting. I think it would be worse with two ways in even if one was a designated entrance and the other an exit. Instead of one cop directing traffic you would have two cops on Main St. one at the entrance to direct traffic in and another at the exit to help cars leave. That means more money for police in addition to construction costs. It also means more back up at Main St and since the number of cars exiting or entering don't change you still have issues.

The only solution is to reduce the traffic in and out.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 9:07 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

PedalPower wrote:
Not to add a match to a tinderbox here, but in theory the only vehicles that should be using Schoolhouse Lane before/after school are the school buses and those cars belonging to the teachers and/or town hall workers. That is, students who don't qualify for busing "technically" live close enough to school to walk or ride their bikes. Otherwise they qualify for busing.

The traffic problem around the school is being compounded -- and on a significant scale -- by two deviations to the theoretical. First, it seems many students who are considered "walkers" actually get driven to school. Second, it seems at least a few "bus" students also get driven to school rather than take the bus. The root cause issue here is not that many parents choose to drive their kids to school. It really is that Cranbury, including (or especially) its school complex, was built for the pre-automobile age. The residents of today's Cranbury, like just about any suburb in America, are deeply rooted in the automobile age. That is, it is not the norm in modern suburban society to walk from point A to point B. You drive. Again, this is meta-level issue in the United States, not a criticism of Cranbury or its residents. (I'll readily admit I drive my kids to school a few times each week.)

As much as I'd like to see the problem addressed by encouraging more kids to walk or ride their bikes, the reality is that for many it's probably not safe enough. That is, unless you live in the Village proper, there are a number of very busy roads kids have to traverse or walk/ride alongside to get to school.

Therefore, the question is whether Cranbury should embrace the modern automobile society and build a few more roads into the school complex, or whether hold fast to its historical roots and challenge its citizens to solve such problems as this using other means.


There are a lot of circumstances that deviate from your theoretical beyond parents opting to drive their kids in simply as a choice. Our kids bus in and we greatly prefer them doing so, as do the kids. Yet we probably have to drive one of them in at least a couple times a week. Many of the teachers do their individual meeting times with kids before school, many of the activities meet before school, like band for example, all requiring the parent to provide transportation instead of the bus. Probably at least once every few weeks the bus doesnt show up in time for the kids to make it to school on time and parents have to make last minute arrangements to drive their kids or form local carpools to get their kids in. And some parents have other kids who go to school elsewhere, like preschool, and have to drive their kids in because they wouldnt be able to make the other delivery on time if they waited for the bus. Etc. Etc. Its a bit simplistic to presume every parent driving is simply doing so for their convenience and could elect not to.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 9:10 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

In a real emergency couldn't a vast majority of cars successfully drive over the grass to reach at least three alternative exits, including the gravel road on the back side of the school, Park Place passed the tennis courts or if they needed to avoid Main Street they could drive straight over the soccer fields and out along the edge of the access road that borders the farm land just passed it all the way to Plainsboro Road? None of these are ideal but certain doable in a crisis situation. It's not not people are truly trapped without options.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 9:22 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
In a real emergency couldn't a vast majority of cars successfully drive over the grass to reach at least three alternative exits, including the gravel road on the back side of the school, Park Place passed the tennis courts or if they needed to avoid Main Street they could drive straight over the soccer fields and out along the edge of the access road that borders the farm land just passed it all the way to Plainsboro Road? None of these are ideal but certain doable in a crisis situation. It's not not people are truly trapped without options.


Emergency vehicles (fire truck, ambulance, etc.) need to access the school, not just people going out.

Since there is open space already, how expensive is it to add a gravel road for emergency access?
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 9:37 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
In a real emergency couldn't a vast majority of cars successfully drive over the grass to reach at least three alternative exits, including the gravel road on the back side of the school, Park Place passed the tennis courts or if they needed to avoid Main Street they could drive straight over the soccer fields and out along the edge of the access road that borders the farm land just passed it all the way to Plainsboro Road? None of these are ideal but certain doable in a crisis situation. It's not not people are truly trapped without options.


Emergency vehicles (fire truck, ambulance, etc.) need to access the school, not just people going out.

Since there is open space already, how expensive is it to add a gravel road for emergency access?


That's a good idea.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 9:42 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

I have noticed that before the buses can turn into School Lane the cops and the crossing have to stop traffic about 75 feet down school because the buses cannot safely make the narrow turn w/out going into the opposite lane and potentially hitting a car. This is unacceptable. It is not realistic to think that we are going to be able to stop people from driving their kids to school. It just ain't going to happen. School Lane is simply not wide enough to accomdate the volume of traffic, even for 15-20 minutes it is unsafe.

I disagree with posts that state if a seperate exit is established an additional police officer would be needed. The police (dating back to Chief Logan) are not there to get cars out of school lane. The police are there to cross the children and make sure the buses are able to get in. If I choose to drive my kid and I have to sit and wait to get on Main Street, that is my problem.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 10:34 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Quote:
I have noticed that before the buses can turn into School Lane the cops and the crossing have to stop traffic about 75 feet down school because the buses cannot safely make the narrow turn w/out going into the opposite lane and potentially hitting a car. This is unacceptable. It is not realistic to think that we are going to be able to stop people from driving their kids to school. It just ain't going to happen. School Lane is simply not wide enough to accomdate the volume of traffic, even for 15-20 minutes it is unsafe.


This is ridiculous. Just because the cops have to stop the cars a little farther back, it is unsafe? The traffic cop on duty is very diligent to make sure the car is stopped far enough back, if the driver moves up too far, the cop just has it come off Schoolhouse Lane. People deal with traffic worse than this all day long in other places - drive to Princeton at lunch or rush hour and go down Nassau St. We have a traffic cop directing the traffic, we have an additional crossing guard. So what it's crowded for 15-20 minutes, doesn't mean it's unsafe. Pay attention to driving and the direction the traffic cops and crossing guards are giving you and you will be safe. I would be interested to know how many times in the history of the school and town hall did an emergency vehicle have to come in to the school during the exact time of pick up or drop off? The key in a real emergency is to NOT have parents of every single child driving to the school to pick up their kid. That's when it will be chaos and unsafe.

The thing that is really unsafe is that despite directions in the school calendar and monthly notices in the school newsletter, people continue to pick up their children from the Town Hall and ballet school parking lot, so they are crossing in front of the traffic to get back to their cars.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2009, 11:31 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Quote:
I have noticed that before the buses can turn into School Lane the cops and the crossing have to stop traffic about 75 feet down school because the buses cannot safely make the narrow turn w/out going into the opposite lane and potentially hitting a car. This is unacceptable. It is not realistic to think that we are going to be able to stop people from driving their kids to school. It just ain't going to happen. School Lane is simply not wide enough to accomdate the volume of traffic, even for 15-20 minutes it is unsafe.


This is ridiculous. Just because the cops have to stop the cars a little farther back, it is unsafe? The traffic cop on duty is very diligent to make sure the car is stopped far enough back, if the driver moves up too far, the cop just has it come off Schoolhouse Lane. People deal with traffic worse than this all day long in other places - drive to Princeton at lunch or rush hour and go down Nassau St. We have a traffic cop directing the traffic, we have an additional crossing guard. So what it's crowded for 15-20 minutes, doesn't mean it's unsafe. Pay attention to driving and the direction the traffic cops and crossing guards are giving you and you will be safe. I would be interested to know how many times in the history of the school and town hall did an emergency vehicle have to come in to the school during the exact time of pick up or drop off? The key in a real emergency is to NOT have parents of every single child driving to the school to pick up their kid. That's when it will be chaos and unsafe.

The thing that is really unsafe is that despite directions in the school calendar and monthly notices in the school newsletter, people continue to pick up their children from the Town Hall and ballet school parking lot, so they are crossing in front of the traffic to get back to their cars.


I agree.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2009, 8:51 am EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:

I disagree with posts that state if a seperate exit is established an additional police officer would be needed. The police (dating back to Chief Logan) are not there to get cars out of school lane. The police are there to cross the children and make sure the buses are able to get in. If I choose to drive my kid and I have to sit and wait to get on Main Street, that is my problem.


The Police are not just there to ensure kids cross safely as then we could just hire an extra crossing guard and not have a uniformed officer on duty. Just like we have at every other crossing. If it was just to cross kids, then why have an officer on duty at all in that location when we don't need an officer in other areas?

The actual police officer is there due to traffic control as much as it is for kids to cross. That does go back to Chief Logan. Though when Chief Logan was there he would not stand in the street directing traffic. He would walk out with the kids if needed so he was more crossing guard than traffic cop. If you add an additional exit you have a second point with traffic control issues. In that instance you need another uniformed officer for two reasons. 1) The two will need to coordinate the flow with each other to prevent Main St. from being a nightmare. 2) The issue of regulating traffic into the entrance will be a major issue and it will require an officer.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2009, 8:57 am EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

By the way, as you say the Police are also there to ensure the buses get in and out. We would still need to ensure the buses get in and out if we have a separate entrance and exit. Which means two cops. Otherwise, you end up with a log jam of people trying to turn into the school waiting for cars to pass and another log jam at the school with cars trying to exit into traffic.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2009, 9:08 am EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
By the way, as you say the Police are also there to ensure the buses get in and out. We would still need to ensure the buses get in and out if we have a separate entrance and exit. Which means two cops. Otherwise, you end up with a log jam of people trying to turn into the school waiting for cars to pass and another log jam at the school with cars trying to exit into traffic.


This is just speculation. The design of the traffic flow pattern for minimizing/avoiding the assistance of police is not a difficult task (my speculation, we are not the first to have this issue in NJ).
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2009, 9:21 am EST    Post subject: Re: Town Hall clock and nearby road condition Reply with quote

It's based on where the roads would come in and the degree of how much traffic is on Main St. If you look at other districts they have similar issues. I dealt with this on Long Island. It's much the same as how you see police working with road work. If we did not have as busy a Main St. or if School Lane was made a 4 lane entrance it would be fine with one officer.

However, because of the separation between Park Place and School Lane you need two areas of traffic control.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    [http://cranbury.info] -> Radom Thoughts | Sports | Kitchen Sink All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5