Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 11:13 am EDT    Post subject: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

HIGHTSTOWN — Concerns over what some referred to as unfair telephone polling and racist remarks made by two Republican Hightstown Borough Council candidates were raised during the public comment session at the borough’s council meeting last night.
In a letter to the editor that ran in The Times on Sunday, Councilwoman Skye Gilmartin and council hopeful John Archer said that Resolution 2005-66 — the borough’s six-year-old so-called “don’t ask” policy regarding residents’ immigration statuses — “has severely affected the safety, quality of life, property values and economic stability” of Hightstown residents.
The letter, some say, contains veiled racism toward the borough’s large Hispanic population, many of whom are undocumented immigrants.
“I’m appalled at what I would describe as pure racism,” said borough resident Francois Laforge last night. He is also an immigrant. “It flies in the face of reality to blame the bad economy on immigrants.”

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/06/hightstown_dont_ask_policy_on.html
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 12:30 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

I'm new to this issue and haven't read the full letter, only what is quoted. But how is it inherently racist to be concerned with legal status for public services? The argument seems to be that if the net result has an adverse impact on a group then it must be racist (or sexist or whatever the classification of the group in question)? If so, that's dumb logic and an abuse of the concept of discrimination.
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 1:45 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
I'm new to this issue and haven't read the full letter, only what is quoted. But how is it inherently racist to be concerned with legal status for public services? The argument seems to be that if the net result has an adverse impact on a group then it must be racist (or sexist or whatever the classification of the group in question)? If so, that's dumb logic and an abuse of the concept of discrimination.

Nice response to your own post
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 2:05 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
HIGHTSTOWN — Concerns over what some referred to as unfair telephone polling and racist remarks made by two Republican Hightstown Borough Council candidates were raised during the public comment session at the borough’s council meeting last night.
In a letter to the editor that ran in The Times on Sunday, Councilwoman Skye Gilmartin and council hopeful John Archer said that Resolution 2005-66 — the borough’s six-year-old so-called “don’t ask” policy regarding residents’ immigration statuses — “has severely affected the safety, quality of life, property values and economic stability” of Hightstown residents.
The letter, some say, contains veiled racism toward the borough’s large Hispanic population, many of whom are undocumented immigrants.
“I’m appalled at what I would describe as pure racism,” said borough resident Francois Laforge last night. He is also an immigrant. “It flies in the face of reality to blame the bad economy on immigrants.”

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/06/hightstown_dont_ask_policy_on.html


how do our current candidates for the town council feel about this topic and do you think Cranbury should pass a law such as Hightsown did to make Cranbury a Sanctuary City?
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 2:15 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
I'm new to this issue and haven't read the full letter, only what is quoted. But how is it inherently racist to be concerned with legal status for public services? The argument seems to be that if the net result has an adverse impact on a group then it must be racist (or sexist or whatever the classification of the group in question)? If so, that's dumb logic and an abuse of the concept of discrimination.

Nice response to your own post


Sorry, no. I wrote the second post but didn't post the link in the first.
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 7:23 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Crickets
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 8:28 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

"undocumented immigrants" --> bad?

Let's assume 150 years later, China dominates the world. Your grand kids have to find jobs there, and they become "undocumented immigrants" in China. So your grand kids are bad people there?
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 9:18 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
"undocumented immigrants" --> bad?

Let's assume 150 years later, China dominates the world. Your grand kids have to find jobs there, and they become "undocumented immigrants" in China. So your grand kids are bad people there?


Who said anything about undocumented immigrants being bad? Please quote specifically.
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 11:24 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Racism just seeps through the pores by the liberal fools who feel it is fine for members of a specific ethnic group to sneak into the country but not for others. I wonder how they would feel if it was "undocumented" Scandinavians, Germans, Italians, or Russians in large groups. Would the liberals be jumping to give them "sanctuary"? Just take a look at Port Chester NY where a liberal Democratic judge declared 1 vote equivalent to 6 votes to level the so called playing field for Hispanics to account for the "undocumented" who were not able to vote! Pure racism legislated by a liberal judge. If the liberal Democrats get enough power, they will tax and legislate themselves out of their own homes!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/nyregion/17chester.html
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 21 2011, 11:46 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

As soon as you start your point with "liberal" you stop making sense. Lliberal versus conservative are just political terms. The real world is not defined by political jingoism. Argue your points on the merits of the facts, not by broad generalizations of political parties.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 22 2011, 8:12 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
As soon as you start your point with "liberal" you stop making sense. Lliberal versus conservative are just political terms. The real world is not defined by political jingoism. Argue your points on the merits of the facts, not by broad generalizations of political parties.


I am not any of the above posters, nor is my point to weigh in on this issue. I disagree with your point. Labels have meanings. There is such a thing as a "liberal" and liberals are inclined to support the concept of "sanctuary city" designations.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 22 2011, 8:30 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
As soon as you start your point with "liberal" you stop making sense. Lliberal versus conservative are just political terms. The real world is not defined by political jingoism. Argue your points on the merits of the facts, not by broad generalizations of political parties.


I am not any of the above posters, nor is my point to weigh in on this issue. I disagree with your point. Labels have meanings. There is such a thing as a "liberal" and liberals are inclined to support the concept of "sanctuary city" designations.


I also am not one of the above posters, nor do I want to way in on this issue.

But I disagree with your point. While there is such a thing as a liberal, I double dog dare you to find two people with the same definition.

In the 60's, conservative was used as a pejorative term to beat up those who disagreed with mainstream democratic candidates. For the last 20 years liberal has been used in that manner by republicans. Liberal currently seems to be anybody who disagrees with you.

My problem is classical liberalism of the 18th and 19th century is something more akin to libertarianism.

I believe the original poster was trying to say calling the otherside "liberal" or "conservative" does little or nothing to advance a point and is merely political positioning.

To make this point. In the post war era, people one would most likely deem conservative ( i e freemarket republicans)were for increased immigration. It was those typically deemed liberal (union backing democrats) most ardently anti-immigration. This too has flipped in the last 20 years. All of these labels are so twisted and constantly changing they no longer have much meaning. My advice is make your argument with out using a label for your opposition. Labeling your opposition is typically a lame attempt to set up a straw man and only makes your argument seem weaker.

Sorry to interrupt your topic, I will leave now, go back to your previous fight.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 22 2011, 9:43 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

The labels may have a little value in broadly classifying a group of people but they are meaningless when used like the poster above to try and associate specific issues with a group or when used like some kind of slur or insult. I am a registered Democrat who is fiscally conservative and thinks the Ryan plan doesn’t go far enough, except in more breaks for big corporations, who doesn't believe in affirmative action, who doesn't think we're tough enough on crime, who doesn't believe in this "sanctuary city" concept, who doesn’t believe in modern unions, etc. Yet I would have no problem being called a liberal if that put me in the opposite camp as the hardcore "socially conservative" tea party members who support state-sanctioned discrimination against any class of people, including gays, who believe that “intelligent design” is a legitimate science or who believe that we are proportionately over taxing big corporations or billionaires in relation to middle and upper-middle class people who pay the highest tax brackets and incur the AMT. I think government should be smaller, but my concept of it would not jive with social conservatives because government should have no role in denying any two people the legal privileges of marriage or telling scientists they can’t study stem cells, etc. I always laugh when people who describe themselves as “conservatives” talk about small government then support all kinds of government intrusions and privileges when it happens to coincide with their social agenda.

The point is labels stop working when used to pigeonhole and entire group of people on specific issues. There is not some vast unified conspiracy of “liberals” who collectively decide “liberal” policy any more than there is for conservatives. If a judge makes a decision you don’t agree with, that judge did it not “liberals.” You may have a good point that they decision was bad, but when you collectively blame “liberals” your point is lost and you are revealed just to be hate mongering and blinded by bias and bile. Try not to see everything on ideological terms and examine things by the issues themselves. If everyone did that we would get a lot more accomplished.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 22 2011, 10:57 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
As soon as you start your point with "liberal" you stop making sense. Lliberal versus conservative are just political terms. The real world is not defined by political jingoism. Argue your points on the merits of the facts, not by broad generalizations of political parties.


I am not any of the above posters, nor is my point to weigh in on this issue. I disagree with your point. Labels have meanings. There is such a thing as a "liberal" and liberals are inclined to support the concept of "sanctuary city" designations.


I also am not one of the above posters, nor do I want to way in on this issue.

But I disagree with your point. While there is such a thing as a liberal, I double dog dare you to find two people with the same definition.

In the 60's, conservative was used as a pejorative term to beat up those who disagreed with mainstream democratic candidates. For the last 20 years liberal has been used in that manner by republicans. Liberal currently seems to be anybody who disagrees with you.

My problem is classical liberalism of the 18th and 19th century is something more akin to libertarianism.

I believe the original poster was trying to say calling the otherside "liberal" or "conservative" does little or nothing to advance a point and is merely political positioning.

To make this point. In the post war era, people one would most likely deem conservative ( i e freemarket republicans)were for increased immigration. It was those typically deemed liberal (union backing democrats) most ardently anti-immigration. This too has flipped in the last 20 years. All of these labels are so twisted and constantly changing they no longer have much meaning. My advice is make your argument with out using a label for your opposition. Labeling your opposition is typically a lame attempt to set up a straw man and only makes your argument seem weaker.

Sorry to interrupt your topic, I will leave now, go back to your previous fight.


should be .......I also am not one of the above posters, nor do I want to WEIGH in on this issue.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 22 2011, 4:50 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Will the town council in Cranbury be taking action on this?
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 22 2011, 5:07 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Hightstown 'Don't ask' policy on immigration status raises concerns Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Will the town council in Cranbury be taking action on this?


Why would they?
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