Queen of Scottsdale
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Small town Love-0582
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PostPosted: Wed, Sep 21 2016, 4:00 pm EDT    Post subject: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

It's so educational to just sit in the town library. Writing here about one particular day the VERY FIRST week of school.

A string of siblings prompts our delightful children's librarian to 'whisper' to co-worker whether "their father has moved out of the family home". Queen of Scottsdale jumps up to computer to check the address on computer. She tells us that yes, a new address on his record, and would you believe the book he currently has check out is David Brooks' on character! What a guy!

Thank you library staff for judging us. Glad the quiet summer hours you love are over so the school students can distract you from that hard book work.

Manners prevent me from commenting on the Queen's dearly departed and her new boyfriend. No comment here on how many hours absent the children's dept desks are empty. You just keep up the good work!
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anon-88r5
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PostPosted: Wed, Sep 21 2016, 5:18 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

The above post seems very inappropriate. Funny how someone can trash people and do even worse.

BTW, this past summer a similar question was asked of my daughter. Why? Because we moved and had the old address on file so they could update the records. How did they know because my daughter said we had a new home. Who knows what the child said? I highly doubt our librarians or others are going up and randomly asking did your daddy move out.
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anon-475o
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PostPosted: Fri, Sep 23 2016, 1:23 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

When you figure out what the children's librarian does, please post it!

In this town, there can't be more than a handful of kids that are not in school during the day and the school has its own librarian. There are hardly any programs for kids, and the few that there are require very little on the part of the children's librarian. Aside from barking at the kids who hang out after-school, what is there for a full time children's librarian to do?

For the same money you could buy every kid in Cranbury school a Tablet reader and an Amazon prime membership.
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raiders77-1osn
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PostPosted: Mon, Sep 26 2016, 8:57 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

I think employee behavior is the least of the problems with the library. They are always friendly and try to help everyone out.

Below please find the REAL problems with this disaster.

1. This debacle has not even broken ground and its already blocking one of the great views the town has to offer. We all walk our dogs and enjoy that view every day.

2. Costs continue to rise. They are short money. People are tired of paying for something that benefits just those who want someone else to pay for their entertainment.

3. Cranbury school enrollment continues to decline. Last thing we need is to expand the school when it already is too big for the amount of students that are attending.

4. Many communities nation wide have schools that house the ton library. It has worked for Cranbury for many years. No reason to think it can't continue to serve its purpose. We are living in 2016 not 1916, everyone has access to information. Libraries don't serve the same purpose. Give the kids and kindle and amazon prime account and do right by the people who actually pay the bills in this town.

5. Plainsboro and Monroe are less than 10 minutes away. They have great libraries that are open to us. Furthermore, Cranbury high school students are given FREE Princeton public library passes. When is the last time you saw a Cranbury high school age kid in that place?

6. STOP THE MADNESS!!!! Put this thing to a vote. It would go down 3-1 on a good day..........
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anon-2q10
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PostPosted: Wed, Sep 28 2016, 7:40 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

1. Literally no one cares abut your dog walk views. At least not nearly as much as we care about making sure the children of the town have the best public services available to them including a library facility with up to date designs and technologies.

2. Then we, as a community, will put up more money. Our taxes are already well below area standard. If everyones taxes need to go up a few hundred dollars a year for a few years to cover extra cost, then so be it. It's worth it.

3. Wrong. It fluctuates recently. However, once the affordable housing and old trenton road/main street town homes are done, it will undoubtedly increase consistently year after year.

4. So wrong. It's very important to have a proper physical space where children can go for additional learning. If you think a kindle is the same as a library, then your rights to post on here should be revoked so we can save space for those with better perspective.

5. Children don't drive. That starts at 17 years old. We need a top notch place in or own town that our children have easy access to.

6. You are the madness. I would be willing to bet that you don't have children or at least not school age children. So this isn't important to you. On the other hand, I bet you won't argue with anyone when the time comes to sell your house here and you collect the top tier resale price that exists in large part because of the educational system and kid-friendly amenities that exist here. Our town is so great (and resale prices so high and consistent) in large part because successful, conscientious people want to move their families here. They want to move their families here because the school is great and its a great place for kids. As a community, we would be foolish to achieve that status and then ignore it assuming it will never go away. Keeping that status is an ongoing effort.


This project is beneficial to our entire community. We are generally an educated, affluent, conscientious, successful, ambitious community. Projects like this which improve our town for the next generation are vital to maintaining the type of community that we all value so dearly. Take a step back and think about what you are saying... "the kids don't need a new library" -- what a pitiful, self-centered attitude!



raiders77-1osn wrote:
I think employee behavior is the least of the problems with the library. They are always friendly and try to help everyone out.

Below please find the REAL problems with this disaster.

1. This debacle has not even broken ground and its already blocking one of the great views the town has to offer. We all walk our dogs and enjoy that view every day.

2. Costs continue to rise. They are short money. People are tired of paying for something that benefits just those who want someone else to pay for their entertainment.

3. Cranbury school enrollment continues to decline. Last thing we need is to expand the school when it already is too big for the amount of students that are attending.

4. Many communities nation wide have schools that house the ton library. It has worked for Cranbury for many years. No reason to think it can't continue to serve its purpose. We are living in 2016 not 1916, everyone has access to information. Libraries don't serve the same purpose. Give the kids and kindle and amazon prime account and do right by the people who actually pay the bills in this town.

5. Plainsboro and Monroe are less than 10 minutes away. They have great libraries that are open to us. Furthermore, Cranbury high school students are given FREE Princeton public library passes. When is the last time you saw a Cranbury high school age kid in that place?

6. STOP THE MADNESS!!!! Put this thing to a vote. It would go down 3-1 on a good day..........
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Wed, Sep 28 2016, 9:02 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

I can guarantee that our school under current planning is not going to see a massive expansion in enrollment. Our peak numbers came when Shadow Oaks was just finishing and Cranbury Green came on board.

We don't have massive development and turnover is not great in Cranbury. We have many empty nesters in market housing.

Based on other mature towns enrollment spikes, then drops as no new building occurs and plateaus. Given there are a number of single bedroom apartments in 130 D and part of the affordable housing plan is senior units enrollment is unlikely to be where it was.
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anon-4638
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PostPosted: Wed, Sep 28 2016, 11:48 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

anon-2q10 wrote:
1. Literally no one cares abut your dog walk views. At least not nearly as much as we care about making sure the children of the town have the best public services available to them including a library facility with up to date designs and technologies.

2. Then we, as a community, will put up more money. Our taxes are already well below area standard. If everyones taxes need to go up a few hundred dollars a year for a few years to cover extra cost, then so be it. It's worth it.

3. Wrong. It fluctuates recently. However, once the affordable housing and old trenton road/main street town homes are done, it will undoubtedly increase consistently year after year.

4. So wrong. It's very important to have a proper physical space where children can go for additional learning. If you think a kindle is the same as a library, then your rights to post on here should be revoked so we can save space for those with better perspective.

5. Children don't drive. That starts at 17 years old. We need a top notch place in or own town that our children have easy access to.

6. You are the madness. I would be willing to bet that you don't have children or at least not school age children. So this isn't important to you. On the other hand, I bet you won't argue with anyone when the time comes to sell your house here and you collect the top tier resale price that exists in large part because of the educational system and kid-friendly amenities that exist here. Our town is so great (and resale prices so high and consistent) in large part because successful, conscientious people want to move their families here. They want to move their families here because the school is great and its a great place for kids. As a community, we would be foolish to achieve that status and then ignore it assuming it will never go away. Keeping that status is an ongoing effort.


This project is beneficial to our entire community. We are generally an educated, affluent, conscientious, successful, ambitious community. Projects like this which improve our town for the next generation are vital to maintaining the type of community that we all value so dearly. Take a step back and think about what you are saying... "the kids don't need a new library" -- what a pitiful, self-centered attitude!



raiders77-1osn wrote:
I think employee behavior is the least of the problems with the library. They are always friendly and try to help everyone out.

Below please find the REAL problems with this disaster.

1. This debacle has not even broken ground and its already blocking one of the great views the town has to offer. We all walk our dogs and enjoy that view every day.

2. Costs continue to rise. They are short money. People are tired of paying for something that benefits just those who want someone else to pay for their entertainment.

3. Cranbury school enrollment continues to decline. Last thing we need is to expand the school when it already is too big for the amount of students that are attending.

4. Many communities nation wide have schools that house the ton library. It has worked for Cranbury for many years. No reason to think it can't continue to serve its purpose. We are living in 2016 not 1916, everyone has access to information. Libraries don't serve the same purpose. Give the kids and kindle and amazon prime account and do right by the people who actually pay the bills in this town.

5. Plainsboro and Monroe are less than 10 minutes away. They have great libraries that are open to us. Furthermore, Cranbury high school students are given FREE Princeton public library passes. When is the last time you saw a Cranbury high school age kid in that place?

6. STOP THE MADNESS!!!! Put this thing to a vote. It would go down 3-1 on a good day..........


So much of your argument in support of a new library seems to be based on the benefits for the kids, but the new library is being built for the benefit of adults (and by my observation, not that many of them). The kids are tolerated, but not particularly welcomed in the current library and the resources that could be used to make it a great library for the kids are being siphoned off to support the new library project.

We obviously have different views on how to best serve the community's library needs. You feel it is worth it for everyone to pony up a few hundred more dollars a year to support the new library and I feel the library is squandering the money they get now. So, why not put your new library idea to a vote, so all the people who's money you are so ready to spend for them have the chance to decide if they think this is a worthwhile endeavor?
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 4:59 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

The TC is on record that there will be no financial support. The library tax must be sufficient. So whether a few hundred dollars or 1 is immaterial.

The library will have to work within it's allowance.
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anon-2q10
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 9:22 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

There is going to be 70-80 new residences built in the next 12-18 months. Even if just half of those residences have school age children and those half have 2 children each, thats approx. 80 new students into the school system, 10 per grade. Cut my number in half and you still have 5 new kids per grade. Don't believe what was purported in the plan submissions for OTR/Main St townhouse; i.e. that only 15% will have school age children. If you think empty nesters are moving into $650k, 2500 square foot townhomes, you're wrong.

Here's another way to look at. Those 70-80 new residences will likely average 3.5 people per residence or 280 new residents in Cranbury. I believe our current population is 3300 or so. 280 new is a 8.4% increase. If you think our population os going to increase 8.4% and magically our school enrollment isn't going to increase 8.4%, you're wrong. We'd be lucky if we got 8.4% enrollment increase from an 8.4% population increase. As I mentioned above, I believe the new developments will be targeted by people with school age children and the 8.4% population increase may lead to a 12.4% enrollment increase.


anon-s6p5 wrote:
I can guarantee that our school under current planning is not going to see a massive expansion in enrollment. Our peak numbers came when Shadow Oaks was just finishing and Cranbury Green came on board.

We don't have massive development and turnover is not great in Cranbury. We have many empty nesters in market housing.

Based on other mature towns enrollment spikes, then drops as no new building occurs and plateaus. Given there are a number of single bedroom apartments in 130 D and part of the affordable housing plan is senior units enrollment is unlikely to be where it was.
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anon-2q10
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 9:25 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

The TC has said allot of things on record over the years that have changed for good reason and based on new developments and information. In any event, my point was to the comment about them running out of money. One way or another, I am confident that the library will be completed. It may be on budget. If it is over budget, it will get covered one way or another; donations, change in TC attitude regarding a small tax, etc.

The statement I was responding to was trying to leave the impression that we might be left with a half built library that never gets finished. That won't happen.

anon-s6p5 wrote:
The TC is on record that there will be no financial support. The library tax must be sufficient. So whether a few hundred dollars or 1 is immaterial.

The library will have to work within it's allowance.
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anon-po72
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 9:46 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

Townville and Sandy Hook. We have a way to get the public library out of the school. We should all be behind this effort. The students will then have their own secure school library.
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Sad-pp98
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 12:31 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

anon-po72 wrote:
Townville and Sandy Hook. We have a way to get the public library out of the school. We should all be behind this effort. The students will then have their own secure school library.


sad you need to use a tragedy to advance your agenda for a library the school shootings you mention did not have public libraries in them the few that want the library will use any argument true or not to get their way
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anon-88r5
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 2:09 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

anon-2q10 wrote:
There is going to be 70-80 new residences built in the next 12-18 months. Even if just half of those residences have school age children and those half have 2 children each, thats approx. 80 new students into the school system, 10 per grade. Cut my number in half and you still have 5 new kids per grade. Don't believe what was purported in the plan submissions for OTR/Main St townhouse; i.e. that only 15% will have school age children. If you think empty nesters are moving into $650k, 2500 square foot townhomes, you're wrong.

Here's another way to look at. Those 70-80 new residences will likely average 3.5 people per residence or 280 new residents in Cranbury. I believe our current population is 3300 or so. 280 new is a 8.4% increase. If you think our population os going to increase 8.4% and magically our school enrollment isn't going to increase 8.4%, you're wrong. We'd be lucky if we got 8.4% enrollment increase from an 8.4% population increase. As I mentioned above, I believe the new developments will be targeted by people with school age children and the 8.4% population increase may lead to a 12.4% enrollment increase.


anon-s6p5 wrote:
I can guarantee that our school under current planning is not going to see a massive expansion in enrollment. Our peak numbers came when Shadow Oaks was just finishing and Cranbury Green came on board.

We don't have massive development and turnover is not great in Cranbury. We have many empty nesters in market housing.

Based on other mature towns enrollment spikes, then drops as no new building occurs and plateaus. Given there are a number of single bedroom apartments in 130 D and part of the affordable housing plan is senior units enrollment is unlikely to be where it was.


We'll have to see, but what you're doing is predicting. Let's follow then and look at school figures. Let's assume you're right worst case 80 new kids and no HS kids move in.

Our BOE is very good and they do a credible job estimating enrollment.

The 2017 estimated enrollment is 448 kids in k-8. That is 44 kids below the 2016 enrollment of 492 kids. (http://www.cranburyschool.org/ourpages/auto/2012/6/12/48471647/Budget%20Presentation%202016.pdf)

Further, our peak enrollment was in 2006 with 656 students (http://www.cranburyschool.org/ourpages/auto/2012/6/12/48471647/Budget%20Presentation%202013.pdf)

So even if we add in 80 new students added in 2017 (which won't happen due to build schedules) your barely bringing the enrollment up to 2014 level of 547 kids and still 100 kids shy of peak.

This does not even account for the fact that trend shows a continuing decline so once you account for a continued decline in enrollment as is trend then come 2018 or 2019 when these homes come on board you're worst case is likely bringing enrollment to current levels.

There is no valid argument that the school needs space or will be killed by housing. If it was fine in 2006, then it is fine with a dramatically smaller enrollment as well.
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anon-2n94
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PostPosted: Thu, Sep 29 2016, 8:03 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

Sad-pp98 wrote:
anon-po72 wrote:
Townville and Sandy Hook. We have a way to get the public library out of the school. We should all be behind this effort. The students will then have their own secure school library.


sad you need to use a tragedy to advance your agenda for a library the school shootings you mention did not have public libraries in them the few that want the library will use any argument true or not to get their way


Agreed. This is a shameful tactic.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Fri, Sep 30 2016, 5:24 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

These incidents had nothing to do with a library. If some nut wants to do this they'll just break the glass doors to the school.

The library used to open at 3. They can do that again. If the library really was interested in serving the public and adults they'd reduce week day hours during the week and open on Sunday. But then their arguement on school safety is weaker.

If they build a new library then they will not be able to afford to be open on Sunday so there is a waste.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Fri, Sep 30 2016, 7:19 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Queen of Scottsdale Reply with quote

anon-2q10 wrote:
The TC has said allot of things on record over the years that have changed for good reason and based on new developments and information. In any event, my point was to the comment about them running out of money. One way or another, I am confident that the library will be completed. It may be on budget. If it is over budget, it will get covered one way or another; donations, change in TC attitude regarding a small tax, etc.

The statement I was responding to was trying to leave the impression that we might be left with a half built library that never gets finished. That won't happen.

anon-s6p5 wrote:
The TC is on record that there will be no financial support. The library tax must be sufficient. So whether a few hundred dollars or 1 is immaterial.

The library will have to work within it's allowance.


I happened last night to speak with Mr. Taylor. His exact words were that a privately built library is a benefit to the town and a lot of people are working hard to make it a reality.

However, the TC has made it abundantly clear that the library must fully support themselves in operations and in building. There will be no financial support beyond the legally required tax.

That the TC is not going to allow and the library does not want the groundbreaking to start without the library being able to show they have cash in hand to cover all expenses. This is why supporters need to understands why the fundraising is so important. If they want a library they can't sit back and wait because there is not going to be a change of position by this TC.

The operations as well must be self sustaining and the library both understands and has put in place a budget for this. If they fall short they will need to make contingency plans and they agreed. They can make it work and the TC last year declined a requested supplement showing that they are not going to offer funding.

I asked if this was shareable or between us he said yes this is public and been raised at meetings.
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