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anon-00q5
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PostPosted: Mon, Oct 11 2021, 4:19 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

Anon 009-s288 wrote:
anon-00q5 wrote:
Some taxes return more value than others. We get good value for our tax dollars in this town, and by NJ standards, our taxes are low. As long as we let the people decide if we should use tax money for these projects, there's nothing wrong with bringing forward ideas. If that's what the townspeople want to do, then we will do it. If they don't, we won't. That's how it is supposed to work.


I and many other residents agree, we moved here for the school district. Using our tax dollars to make improvements is a sound investment. Not investing in our school will have serious consequences.


If you're right, the school funding proposal should easily win a referendum (which it probably will). That said, we would be wise not to conflate "investing in our school" with a blank check for the school's wish list. There has to be some check and balance on cost/benefit. We already see a lot of people "move here for the school", insist on "nothing but the best for my kids" and then move out when they're done with the school. That pattern is expensive for everyone else in town.
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anon-2ooq
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PostPosted: Mon, Oct 11 2021, 9:09 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

Moving here for the school is an excellent idea. Unfortunately a part of that is the overwhelming number of folks who do that are here until their children are out of school. The revolving members of our communiy continue to want want want and then move away and leave the rest of us with the bill. for example--Pari Stave, Michael Mayes, Richard Stannard, Becky Beureaugard, David Stout etc. When that happens the long haulers are left with the bills. Just wait and you will see Ferrante and Scott do the same thing. These things like ball fields and school expansions are left to be paid for by folks who no longer have children in the school system. My children have been out of school for 30 plus years. We were hood winked into an expansion of the school so that we could have a "community center". Well once the addition was built they added $300,000. for furniture and we never were allowed the use of that room except on rare occasions. Now the Library was jammed down our throats and we will pay to maintain it forever. It will be a cash eating liability in perpetuity. There are wants we DO NOT need and this 18 million dollar expansion is not a need.The Four Seasons folks could help to defeat it and I hope they vote it down. This will be voted on in a silent way on an off day and only the promoters of this "want" will be responsible to have a very limited vote in their private club. There should be a majority vote necessary of at least 65% of residents in favor in order for this to be fair to the taxpayers.
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anon-41rn
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PostPosted: Tue, Oct 12 2021, 7:28 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

I think people are confusing wants and needs. Not all spending is a want and not all spending is a need. And most in support have kids in the school and moved here for the school.

To those who want something and benefit it is a need, but is it a need for most residents even those in the kids to approve the entire spending bill? Police, Fire and EMS are needs as are roads. A bike path system is a want. A zoo is a want. Life can go on quite well without any of those things.

People say it is only an extra 200 a year, but the library people said it was only an extra 100 a year and the bike paths an extra 100. That all adds up on top of the escalating taxes for operating. And I have not yet seen the school say here is what the estimated tax will be for the average home owner which makes me wonder why.

For the school an updated cafeteria is a need. Kids need to eat and the equipment must be maintained. An outdoor seating area with limited seating for lunch which the school on parents night said was in response to an ask by kids, a glass atrium for science class and hydroponics and a performing arts center so people can sit in theater chairs instead of fold out chairs is a want. But the school is smart by packaging them all together like the DC politicians.

We are not a 50k resident town like other towns who have those things and our school performs very well without them. If those are what’s important when deciding to buy a house then people would not have chosen Cranbury with South Brunswick and West Windsor having them already. So our home values will not fall if this is not approved. We will still be very attractive.

To those saying someone paid for others kids that is true. But Cranbury paid for other kids with base expenses. The biggest question mark on spending was just the large group room. people mostly agreed the need for a new gym and more classroom space.

People will still move here for the school because we have a small school system, Princeton and good teachers. None of that changes if people still attend the 2 concerts a year and sit on a folding chair or there are not 5 tables outside for eating lunch. Most students do not do the school play or talent show and classes no longer do class plays so the auditorium is used less today than it was 20 -40 years ago.
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Anon-s288
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PostPosted: Tue, Oct 12 2021, 11:50 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

anon-41rn wrote:
I think people are confusing wants and needs. Not all spending is a want and not all spending is a need. And most in support have kids in the school and moved here for the school.

To those who want something and benefit it is a need, but is it a need for most residents even those in the kids to approve the entire spending bill? Police, Fire and EMS are needs as are roads. A bike path system is a want. A zoo is a want. Life can go on quite well without any of those things.

People say it is only an extra 200 a year, but the library people said it was only an extra 100 a year and the bike paths an extra 100. That all adds up on top of the escalating taxes for operating. And I have not yet seen the school say here is what the estimated tax will be for the average home owner which makes me wonder why.

For the school an updated cafeteria is a need. Kids need to eat and the equipment must be maintained. An outdoor seating area with limited seating for lunch which the school on parents night said was in response to an ask by kids, a glass atrium for science class and hydroponics and a performing arts center so people can sit in theater chairs instead of fold out chairs is a want. But the school is smart by packaging them all together like the DC politicians.

We are not a 50k resident town like other towns who have those things and our school performs very well without them. If those are what’s important when deciding to buy a house then people would not have chosen Cranbury with South Brunswick and West Windsor having them already. So our home values will not fall if this is not approved. We will still be very attractive.

To those saying someone paid for others kids that is true. But Cranbury paid for other kids with base expenses. The biggest question mark on spending was just the large group room. people mostly agreed the need for a new gym and more classroom space.

People will still move here for the school because we have a small school system, Princeton and good teachers. None of that changes if people still attend the 2 concerts a year and sit on a folding chair or there are not 5 tables outside for eating lunch. Most students do not do the school play or talent show and classes no longer do class plays so the auditorium is used less today than it was 20 -40 years ago.


Your position implies Cranbury should just remain status quo, I am not sure many taxpayers would agree that is smart decision making. Investments in our town are necessary from infrastructure like roads, the lake and our buildings -including the school building. Dredging the lake will cost $4-4.5M, some will argue it is a need while others will say a want. Before determining wants vs needs, it is probably best to be informed on town wide projects and the rationale behind the decisions, rather than broad generalizations from these posts.

It is well established people move to this town for the school district, not just because we are small. Cranbury is a top school with two Blue Ribbon awards in the last ten years. The teachers , curriculum and offerings are what make it very attractive, not because we have a small school system.

Indicating the school hasn’t been transparent on what the estimated tax will be is not accurate, it has been publicized. The school has provided a tax calculator on the website for residents to estimate based on their home assessments. Implying the school has not been transparent is completely misleading and why people should go to the source for accurate information. Your comment “Cranbury paid for kids with base expenses”, what does that mean? Do you mean they haven’t used bonds before? The school has had bonds issued in the past.

There have been several comments on this thread about the large group room, concluding the room sits empty or not used by the community. To my knowledge, the room is regularly used by the school, and has been used by the zoning board, planning board, PTO, Girl Scouts and many other outside organizations. Isn’t that the intent?

If you don’t agree with the school’s proposals that is certainly your purgative. Taxpayers would be best served gathering accurate information from the source rather than trying to comb through the inaccurate or misleading comments that sometime appear on these threads.
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anon-00q5
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PostPosted: Wed, Oct 13 2021, 10:54 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

Anon-s288 wrote:
anon-41rn wrote:
I think people are confusing wants and needs. Not all spending is a want and not all spending is a need. And most in support have kids in the school and moved here for the school...

People will still move here for the school because we have a small school system, Princeton and good teachers....


1. "Your position implies Cranbury should just remain status quo..."

2. "It is well established people move to this town for the school district... The teachers , curriculum and offerings are what make it very attractive, not because we have a small school system."

3. "Indicating the school hasn’t been transparent on what the estimated tax will be is not accurate, it has been publicized."

4. "There have been several comments on this thread about the large group room, concluding the room sits empty or not used by the community. To my knowledge, the room is regularly..."


1. You start by completely mischaracterizing the other person's post. No cool.

2. You seem to both vehemently agree that people move here for the school because it is small and has good teachers and curriculum.

3. You're right. the school has been open about the costs.

4. Differences of opinion based on different expectations. If the large group room was sold to the community as more than it has become because of restricted use, then maybe you can understand why people are skeptical of some parts of the new proposed spending.
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Vote NO-s02s
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PostPosted: Thu, Nov 18 2021, 3:22 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

Almost time to vote down this ridiculous spending plan! Help keep Cranbury taxes in check!
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anon-opr0
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PostPosted: Fri, Nov 19 2021, 11:48 am EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

anon-00q5 wrote:
Anon-s288 wrote:
anon-41rn wrote:
I think people are confusing wants and needs. Not all spending is a want and not all spending is a need. And most in support have kids in the school and moved here for the school...

People will still move here for the school because we have a small school system, Princeton and good teachers....


1. "Your position implies Cranbury should just remain status quo..."

2. "It is well established people move to this town for the school district... The teachers , curriculum and offerings are what make it very attractive, not because we have a small school system."

3. "Indicating the school hasn’t been transparent on what the estimated tax will be is not accurate, it has been publicized."

4. "There have been several comments on this thread about the large group room, concluding the room sits empty or not used by the community. To my knowledge, the room is regularly..."


4. Differences of opinion based on different expectations. If the large group room was sold to the community as more than it has become because of restricted use, then maybe you can understand why people are skeptical of some parts of the new proposed spending.


This question came up in one of the public hearings. The school said its had over 300 requests to use their facilities from Township organizations and didn't deny any of them.

If it's true, someone should be able to post specific examples of requests. that were. denied in recent history. If they don't, it seems like it's one of those false rumors people throw around.
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anon-7666
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PostPosted: Fri, Nov 19 2021, 2:30 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

I have lived here for 30 years. I wonder if they consider the school events like PTO and Board of Ed. It used to be the TC would have 2-3 mtgs a year there and candidates night. The school charges for custodial staff so people are not paying for that. In the 300 number could it be those who also wanted the room and then found it too costly?

If the room is that used then why did the library need to have a community space?
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Guest 12438-psor
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PostPosted: Sat, Nov 20 2021, 9:04 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

I’ve lived in town longer than most, and I have always supported a school budget targeted towards instructional expenses. The school cafeteria and kitchen are totally outdated, and I can go along with improvements to classrooms and technical advancements. I am very disappointed in the school board for including the performance arts “center” in this referendum. The cost is expected to be more than half of the estimated $18 million. This should have been a separate expense consideration, in my opinion.
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anon-non5
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PostPosted: Sun, Nov 21 2021, 6:59 am EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

If the budget fails it does not stop all the work. This is not all or nothing. Just like in DC. The vote is no, the BOE goes back and cuts all the extras. Then presents a proposal for the key items. Plus, given construction costs and inflation now is not the time to do any building anyway.
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6 days to go to vote-1qq3
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 8 2021, 5:56 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

6 days to go to vote no!
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anon-ro3o
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PostPosted: Mon, Dec 13 2021, 9:32 am EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

How much in matching $$$ will be lost if the vote in no?
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It's all tax $$-s02s
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PostPosted: Mon, Dec 13 2021, 2:41 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

Matching funds still come from taxes. Nothing is free!
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anon-opr0
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PostPosted: Mon, Dec 13 2021, 3:29 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

It's all tax $$-s02s wrote:
Matching funds still come from taxes. Nothing is free!


The matching funds is money Cranbury taxpayers already paid out to the State that goes to other communities if it doesn't go to us. It's not like the State takes less from us if they don't fund the project. They just give it to someone else. We're already subsidizing other townships and school districts. This would just mean we subsidize them a little less and ourselves a little more.
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anon-ro3o
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 14 2021, 10:48 am EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

anon-opr0 wrote:
It's all tax $$-s02s wrote:
Matching funds still come from taxes. Nothing is free!


The matching funds is money Cranbury taxpayers already paid out to the State that goes to other communities if it doesn't go to us. It's not like the State takes less from us if they don't fund the project. They just give it to someone else. We're already subsidizing other townships and school districts. This would just mean we subsidize them a little less and ourselves a little more.


There are grants available. If we don't take the money when it's available, it will go somewhere else. Us not taking free money will not reduce your taxes.
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Guest
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PostPosted: Sun, Dec 19 2021, 12:49 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Taxes Reply with quote

In NJ if the school budget fails to pass it goes to the township committee to review. The township committee (hopefully in consultation with the school board) may cut some budget items or simply approve the budget as originally presented.
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