Author	Message
publius	Posted: Tue, Apr 17 2012, 4:13 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists publius wrote: Silly people. We don't have elections... we have auctions! We sell out to the highest bidder. Lobbyists are the 4 th branch of government that you never learned about in Social Studies class. The Supreme Court is on the take as well. MONEY=FREE SPEECH The more money you can spend, the more speech you can have! Welcome to the Plutocracy. INGSOC RULES!
publius	Posted: Tue, Apr 17 2012, 4:09 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Krugman is correct! Oh, how politicians LOVE wars! Read General Butler's-War is a Racket. Or go to Youtube and look at Ike's farewell speech. Even Ronnie Ray-Gun was a moderate compared to the loonies who are running the asylum today.
Louie	Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2012, 4:02 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Chris Christie - Cannibalize the Future bad math wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/opinion/krugman-cannibalize-the-future.html?hp I, for one, am shocked to find an opinion piece in the NY Times that disparages Chris Christie.
bad math	Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2012, 7:08 am EDT    Post subject: Chris Christie - Cannibalize the Future http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/opinion/krugman-cannibalize-the-future.html?hp
publius	Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2012, 11:43 am EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Silly people. We don't have elections... we have auctions!
bad math	Posted: Wed, Apr 11 2012, 1:41 pm EDT    Post subject: Report Disputes Christie’s Basis for Halting Tunnel Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest wrote: They are supposed to be against nation-building, too, but that didn't stop them from invading Iraq. They are supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility, but that didn't stop W from blowing the surplus and amassing enourmous debts. The GOP only adopted debt reduction as a mantra when Obama was elected, and they have never adopted nation-building. Bush was following in lock step with his father and Reagan who were both massive infaters of our national debt, the vast majority of it in fact, and major advocates of projecting US forces abroad. So to suggest that he was out of step with his party on those issues is laughable. Yes. The point is, Bush was a hypocrite, not a hero. Bush did the opposite of what he said he would do. Killing the tunnel does not make Christie a hero, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite, either. He refused to add billions in debt at a time when he was cutting back state spending. No one denies that a tunnel is a good idea. The question is, who should get stuck with the bill. If you want to get mad at someone, try Lautenberg and the feds, or the crony contractors or crooked union leaders who drive the cost overruns. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/report-disputes-christies-reason-for-halting-tunnel-project-in-2010.html?pagewanted=all
Guest	Posted: Wed, May 4 2011, 3:58 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists oops - crony
Guest	Posted: Wed, May 4 2011, 3:53 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Another to blame, of course, is Bill Baroni - Christie's chrony at the Port Authority
Guest	Posted: Wed, May 4 2011, 10:45 am EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Guest wrote: You keep saying the feds should be stuck with the bill but you never provide any rational reason why. It primarily benefits NJ residents and would have been exclusively used for NJ Transit. How is that more or even equally the feds responsibility as NJ? The Feds and NY State kicked in billions for a project that principally benefits NJ residents. We should have been first in line. At $.55 on the dollar, New Jersey ranks 50th among states in per capita federal taxes received vs. federal tax burden. In other words, we get shafted out of $22 billion a year by the feds. Meanwhile, Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico have federally funded "inter-state" highways (think about that for a moment). The tunnel was a legitimate interstate transportation project that would have improved mass transit for New Jersey, New York and the entire Northeast from Boston to DC. I am fine with the fact that Christie insisted on limiting New Jersey's investment to $3 billion. Guest wrote: Geez, I didn’t even like Bush and here I am defending him. He wasn't a hypocrite. If you really believe that every politician should blindly make decisions based purely on their campaign jingoism then you are part of the problem. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about "blind" decision making. I gave you specific examples. Bush specifically campaigned against "nation building". Afghanistan was a appropriate and understandable exception to Bush's espoused philosophy against nation building. Iraq was not. Bush's decision to pursue regime change in Iraq was hypocritical (among other things). Bush also let his buddies at Enron get away with murder, so to suggest he had a philosophical objection to bailing out wall street is pure BS. Bush was a hypocrite. Christie's decision to kill the tunnel is consistent with his philosophy (or rhetoric, depending on how you look at it). I thought it was good leadership, you thought it was not. So be it. I am suggesting that there are other people and entities who should share in the blame for the cancellation of the tunnel- our Senators and Federal Transportation Officials who didn't come up with the money, and the Crooked Crony Contractors and Union Goons who drive up the costs of every project in the Northeast to the point of the obsurd. Placing all the blame on Christie is an easy, knee-jerk reaction to a complex problem.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 10:18 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest wrote: They are supposed to be against nation-building, too, but that didn't stop them from invading Iraq. They are supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility, but that didn't stop W from blowing the surplus and amassing enourmous debts. The GOP only adopted debt reduction as a mantra when Obama was elected, and they have never adopted nation-building. Bush was following in lock step with his father and Reagan who were both massive infaters of our national debt, the vast majority of it in fact, and major advocates of projecting US forces abroad. So to suggest that he was out of step with his party on those issues is laughable. Yes. The point is, Bush was a hypocrite, not a hero. Bush did the opposite of what he said he would do. Killing the tunnel does not make Christie a hero, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite, either. He refused to add billions in debt at a time when he was cutting back state spending. No one denies that a tunnel is a good idea. The question is, who should get stuck with the bill. If you want to get mad at someone, try Lautenberg and the feds, or the crony contractors or crooked union leaders who drive the cost overruns. You keep saying the feds should be stuck with the bill but you never provide any rational reason why. It primarily benefits NJ residents and would have been exclusively used for NJ Transit. How is that more or even equally the feds responsibility as NJ? The Feds and NY State kicked in billions for a project that principally benefits NJ residents. We should have been first in line. Geez, I didn’t even like Bush and here I am defending him. He wasn't a hypocrite. If you really believe that every politician should blindly make decisions based purely on their campaign jingoism then you are part of the problem. I would rather have leaders who are required to think and who react to every real world situation rationally based on their judgment of the circumstances, even when that means revising their positions or not always doing what they promise. Obama said he would close Gitmo then changed his mind based on circumstances. He said he would quickly draw down in Iraq and has, but slower than promised. He could have just pushed those things to satisfy those who voted for him but he put the circumstances ahead of his reputation. Bush did the same with the bail-outs. I am not arguing either President was right or wrong and I am picking examples from both parties because this isn’t about partisan politics. This is about real leadership versus reckless show boating. The tunnel was not a partisan issue. It affects people across party lines. Christie did this for Christie, not for the party or New Jersey. Everyone who looks at the acts understands it was penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 7:39 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Guest wrote: Guest wrote: They are supposed to be against nation-building, too, but that didn't stop them from invading Iraq. They are supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility, but that didn't stop W from blowing the surplus and amassing enourmous debts. The GOP only adopted debt reduction as a mantra when Obama was elected, and they have never adopted nation-building. Bush was following in lock step with his father and Reagan who were both massive infaters of our national debt, the vast majority of it in fact, and major advocates of projecting US forces abroad. So to suggest that he was out of step with his party on those issues is laughable. Yes. The point is, Bush was a hypocrite, not a hero. Bush did the opposite of what he said he would do. Killing the tunnel does not make Christie a hero, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite, either. He refused to add billions in debt at a time when he was cutting back state spending. No one denies that a tunnel is a good idea. The question is, who should get stuck with the bill. If you want to get mad at someone, try Lautenberg and the feds, or the crony contractors or crooked union leaders who drive the cost overruns.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 7:10 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists [quote="Guest"] Guest wrote: ...look at George Bush who went against everything he had stood for for 8 years in pushing a $1.5 trillion dollar bail out near the end of his second term because he placed the importance of the economic recovery, as he saw it based on the best facts available at the time, ahead of his general principles or reputation within the party. Whether you agree with him or not, that was leadership and courage... Sorry, but I disagree. If you want a courageous Bush, look at his father. In order to balance the budget he actually raised the top tax rate and indeed balanced the budget. Unfortunately, for the firebreathers in his party they never forgave him and the base did not support him. He lost to Clinton, who reaped the benefits of a balanced budget. Low low interest rates and a declining debt. The lesson was not lost on Bush Jr. His father lost the election because he raised taxes. So, Bush II tried to finance two wars entirely on debt (the US had never previously not raised taxes during wartime). The GOP leaders who are now Balanced budget zealots exploded the deficit under there watch from 2001-2008. I do not blame Bush for the Bail-out, it was the only move to make after the economy cratered. I blame him for the 7 years of budget irresponsibility prior to the bail out. It is simple politics. Whatever the other party is for, I am against. Very sad.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 6:00 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Guest wrote: They are supposed to be against nation-building, too, but that didn't stop them from invading Iraq. They are supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility, but that didn't stop W from blowing the surplus and amassing enourmous debts. The GOP only adopted debt reduction as a mantra when Obama was elected, and they have never adopted nation-building. Bush was following in lock step with his father and Reagan who were both massive infaters of our national debt, the vast majority of it in fact, and major advocates of projecting US forces abroad. So to suggest that he was out of step with his party on those issues is laughable.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 5:28 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists They are supposed to be against nation-building, too, but that didn't stop them from invading Iraq. They are supposed to stand for fiscal responsibility, but that didn't stop W from blowing the surplus and amassing enourmous debts.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 5:18 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Guest wrote: Guest wrote: ...look at George Bush who went against everything he had stood for for 8 years in pushing a $1.5 trillion dollar bail out near the end of his second term because he placed the importance of the economic recovery, as he saw it based on the best facts available at the time, ahead of his general principles or reputation within the party. Whether you agree with him or not, that was leadership and courage... What? You really think "W" had some sort of principled objection to the government covering the ass-etts of big business' greedy house of cards? I take it you never heard of Enron? Yes, I think he hurt his Republican cred with a massive bail-out. Why do you think the majority of the Republicans in the house voted against him on it? The GOP is all for protecting big business but they also are supposed to be against bail-outs.
Guest	Posted: Tue, May 3 2011, 4:29 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: NJ Must Return $271 Million Spent on Hudson Tunnel, U.S. Insists Guest wrote: ...look at George Bush who went against everything he had stood for for 8 years in pushing a $1.5 trillion dollar bail out near the end of his second term because he placed the importance of the economic recovery, as he saw it based on the best facts available at the time, ahead of his general principles or reputation within the party. Whether you agree with him or not, that was leadership and courage... What? You really think "W" had some sort of principled objection to the government covering the ass-etts of big business' greedy house of cards? I take it you never heard of Enron?