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[quote="Guest"]"What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? " I disagree. If police knock on my door and tell me to shove my sidewalk, I'll do it ASAP. I don't want people to view my household as a place frequently visited by police.[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>publius</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2011, 9:37 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">"If you don't shovel your snow............................I don't see what we can do about it"</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon, Jul 4 2011, 10:11 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">It seems to me that an ordinance with no consequences is a waste to even create. It's either have some type of fine or fining procedure or don't waste the time and effort on this proposed ordinance.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon, Jul 4 2011, 10:07 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">How about the ordinance reads something to the effect that if the police respond to a lack of shoveling complaint and personally ask the homeowner to clear their sidewalk and this request is not complied with within 24 hours of that request, then a fine can be issued. <br /> <br />This way it gives the offender to be courteous and comply before a fine is issued.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 9:23 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">"What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? " <br /> <br />I disagree. If police knock on my door and tell me to shove my sidewalk, I'll do it ASAP. I don't want people to view my household as a place frequently visited by police.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You're dreaming. <br /> <br />Why don't we ask those who were there to speak against the ordinance because they don't believe they should have to do it if they will start doing it. Of course they won't because they know its not a real law. Name other "enforceable" laws on the books with no consequence. Heck, we even have fines for silly things like not paying to register an indoor-only cat in this town. Ridiculous.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How many noise fines has this town issued? I know police respond all the time and people turn down radios etc... <br /> <br />If you are so adamant then why not show up? There was one person there speaking in favor of an ordinance and that person mentioned two others. When Jay asked if there was consensus to proceed to an ordinance for first reading of an ordinance with no fine so residents can be given the chance to do the right thing before a fine is necessary three members said yes- Dan, Glenn and Jay. Dan said no. So yes, anything can happen. I would suggest if people really feel a fine is required then you show up at the meeting and state it. I think the TC feel that most normal residents will respond to an officer's request.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Some of us couldn't be there and wrote letters as requested by Win. <br /> <br />The issue isn't how many fines the police issue. Everyone has agreed it would be a last resort with the snow ordinance too. The issue is whether they have the power to. So you believe that those who have specifically stated they don't want to be forced to shovel will do so if the police ask them even if they know the police are merely making a suggestion and can't force them to? <br /> <br />How about this then. Will you agree that if we enact this ordinance and I can come back with examples where the residents still didn't shovel their snow after I ask the police to ask them that you would be for changing the ordinance to include fines? If what you say is true it won't be necessary but then you have nothing to lose.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yes, I would support a fine if the ordinance without one doesn't work. Would you support this one now? <br /> <br />I would like to know how many letters Win received because it didn't seem to be a number of any size or the TC would have mentioned them.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 8:40 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Will there be a copy of the exact wording of the proposed ordinace available online to the public in advance of the next meeting?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 8:38 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">"What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? " <br /> <br />I disagree. If police knock on my door and tell me to shove my sidewalk, I'll do it ASAP. I don't want people to view my household as a place frequently visited by police.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You're dreaming. <br /> <br />Why don't we ask those who were there to speak against the ordinance because they don't believe they should have to do it if they will start doing it. Of course they won't because they know its not a real law. Name other "enforceable" laws on the books with no consequence. Heck, we even have fines for silly things like not paying to register an indoor-only cat in this town. Ridiculous.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How many noise fines has this town issued? I know police respond all the time and people turn down radios etc... <br /> <br />If you are so adamant then why not show up? There was one person there speaking in favor of an ordinance and that person mentioned two others. When Jay asked if there was consensus to proceed to an ordinance for first reading of an ordinance with no fine so residents can be given the chance to do the right thing before a fine is necessary three members said yes- Dan, Glenn and Jay. Dan said no. So yes, anything can happen. I would suggest if people really feel a fine is required then you show up at the meeting and state it. I think the TC feel that most normal residents will respond to an officer's request.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Some of us couldn't be there and wrote letters as requested by Win. <br /> <br />The issue isn't how many fines the police issue. Everyone has agreed it would be a last resort with the snow ordinance too. The issue is whether they have the power to. So you believe that those who have specifically stated they don't want to be forced to shovel will do so if the police ask them even if they know the police are merely making a suggestion and can't force them to? <br /> <br />How about this then. Will you agree that if we enact this ordinance and I can come back with examples where the residents still didn't shovel their snow after I ask the police to ask them that you would be for changing the ordinance to include fines? If what you say is true it won't be necessary but then you have nothing to lose.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 5:54 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How about just posting the names of the scofflaws on this sight:)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />how about "site" ... we'll add you to the site spelling scofflaw list <br /> <br />please identify yourself: name, address, schools attended</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Interesting, for a grammarian you have almost a total lack of punctuation.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 5:52 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How about just posting the names of the scofflaws on this sight:)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />how about "site" ... we'll add you to the site spelling scofflaw list <br /> <br />please identify yourself: name, address, schools attended</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br />ok mom</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 4:02 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How about just posting the names of the scofflaws on this sight:)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />how about "site" ... we'll add you to the site spelling scofflaw list <br /> <br />please identify yourself: name, address, schools attended</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 3:58 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">"What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? " <br /> <br />I disagree. If police knock on my door and tell me to shove my sidewalk, I'll do it ASAP. I don't want people to view my household as a place frequently visited by police.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You're dreaming. <br /> <br />Why don't we ask those who were there to speak against the ordinance because they don't believe they should have to do it if they will start doing it. Of course they won't because they know its not a real law. Name other "enforceable" laws on the books with no consequence. Heck, we even have fines for silly things like not paying to register an indoor-only cat in this town. Ridiculous.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How many noise fines has this town issued? I know police respond all the time and people turn down radios etc... <br /> <br />If you are so adamant then why not show up? There was one person there speaking in favor of an ordinance and that person mentioned two others. When Jay asked if there was consensus to proceed to an ordinance for first reading of an ordinance with no fine so residents can be given the chance to do the right thing before a fine is necessary three members said yes- Dan, Glenn and Jay. Dan said no. So yes, anything can happen. I would suggest if people really feel a fine is required then you show up at the meeting and state it. I think the TC feel that most normal residents will respond to an officer's request.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 10:43 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How about just posting the names of the scofflaws on this sight:)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Shame them to shovel their sidewalks. I like the idea. <br /> <br />How about a fine of $500 after two police visits?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 10:34 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">"What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? " <br /> <br />I disagree. If police knock on my door and tell me to shove my sidewalk, I'll do it ASAP. I don't want people to view my household as a place frequently visited by police.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You're dreaming. <br /> <br />Why don't we ask those who were there to speak against the ordinance because they don't believe they should have to do it if they will start doing it. Of course they won't because they know its not a real law. Name other "enforceable" laws on the books with no consequence. Heck, we even have fines for silly things like not paying to register an indoor-only cat in this town. Ridiculous.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 10:17 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">How about just posting the names of the scofflaws on this sight:)</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 10:09 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">"What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? " <br /> <br />I disagree. If police knock on my door and tell me to shove my sidewalk, I'll do it ASAP. I don't want people to view my household as a place frequently visited by police.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 9:52 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">First of all, the Press didn't get this right. They frequently screw up these stories. The Township Committee hasn't decided what to do yet, let alone voted on it. There was the suggestion of this non-enforced ordinance discussed but no vote and definitely not uniform agreement from the members. They have another discussion scheduled with more public comments expected. <br /> <br />Second, I have a pretty good opinion of the TC and expect they won't be so silly as to pass an "ordinance" like this. Regardless of what side of the issue you are on, it's just bad governing to pass unenforceable laws. If all you are going to do is make a “suggestion” which is effectively what this would be, just pass a “resolution” doing so and not a legal ordinance. Proper form. Passing an ordinance without teeth is like having a speeding limit that is just a suggestion. Duh. <br /> <br />But really this is just politics. Those against the ordinance on the TC saw an opportunity for a “compromise” that sounds great but has the effect of getting their goal of no ordinance. Personally I support the real ordinance but would rather see it voted down or not voted on then to see the TC make the mistake of looking foolish by voting onto our books this one that makes us look silly because it shouldn’t be an ordinance at all. Also, logically this will have no effect on the issue at all because it’s the status quo. Those speaking out against this ordinance mostly made clear that they don’t currently shovel all their sidewalks and considered doing so a hardship for various reasons. So if they felt strongly enough against doing it to come to a meeting and speak out, why would they change their behavior with this “suggestion”? Also, the worst offenders already have been asked by neighbors, the police and other officials in the past and haven’t complied. So why would anything change with a new legal “suggestion”? <br /> <br />The TC needs to demonstrate its backbone and take a real stand on the issue one way or the other. If a majority wants to vote down a law requiring snow removal, just vote it down. No silly tricks that put ridiculous non-laws on our books. Hopefully a majority will feel otherwise and pass an ordinance that promotes public safety and acknowledges the problem that has thus far not gone away with efforts at civility. Either way, have a real law and vote on it not some parlor trick.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You are wrong. There is a first reading of the ordinance this coming meeting on July 25th. It was stated at the meeting on Monday that this was going to be the ordinance. <br /> <br />You can have your view, but this will be voted on as an ordinance and 3 of the 4 TC members agreed to this. Dan Mulligan did not. A resolution is nothing. An ordinance gives authority to the Police to ask which they cannot legally do today. <br /> <br />I think this is a good step. I don't understand why someone would demand that fines have to be there to make it work.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Jay Taylor originally wrote an ordinance with fines. In order to try and compromise some members, including Jay, suggested the idea of doing the ordinance without fines. It has not been voted on so anything can still happen, just as the original ordinance Jay wrote has now changed. At least one of the 3 people who you think supported it at the last meeting believes fines would be better and isn’t comfortable with the “compromise.” Hard to say how he will vote. <br /> <br />What "authority" do the police have in this ordinance other than to ask people to do the right thing? It's silly. The people currently not doing it are making a choice not to, so why would this unenforceable ordinance change their minds? They didn’t come to the TC meeting arguing they don’t want a law but will start to shovel anyway. They came to fight for the right to not do it, so of course they will continue not to. I've spoken with a member of the police force who laughed at this proposal. Without any consequence the ordinance is meaningless. <br /> <br />Why do we need "steps" as you say? Either you believe we don't need people to shovel their sidewalks, as some believe, or you believe it is important for public safety and we should have an enforceable law like most municipalities. A step implies we’re still working toward an enforceable law. This “pretty please do the right thing” ordinance will modify no behavior. So it will accomplish nothing. At least Dan Mulligan, while I disagree with his conclusion, recognizes that. The TC needs a real ordinance and a vote either for convenience or public safety. Take a stand but don’t put useless words on our books.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Jul 3 2011, 8:27 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: proposed snow ordinance makes sense - thanks TC members</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">It is common curtsey to remove the snow from your sidewalks, period! <br />I live in Shadow Oaks and can tell you that there are less than 5 homes that do this regularly. There are children that have to walk in the streets to get to the bus stop, and then stand in the street while waiting for their bus to come. This is dangerous, especially since many people are off to work at the same time as the kids are out waiting for the bus. <br />I think the TC should pass this and there should be fines. The ironic thing is the majority of Shadow Oaks homeowners have snow blowers - you can't take a few more minutes of your time and clear your sidewalk for the safety of the kids?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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