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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="Dan Mulligan"]The 7.5% is very encouraging. The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill http://fairsharehousing.org/. Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have... "Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity" This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan. This is all this group does, this is their job. This is what we are up against![/quote This "group" consists of three lawyers. While I don't agree with them realize, we have lobbyists for builders. The municipalities and school boards have lobbying organizations. Dan is outraged that three lawyers lobby and file suits on behalf of affordable housing? I don't no if you are extraordinarily cynical or incredibly naive. I think the problem is the way Trenton gets lobbied. I don't think the affordable housing advocates are a particularly strong lobby. The problem is Trenton did not want to pay for affordable housing, so they came up with a way for builders and municipalities to provide affordable housing. It is a deeply flawed system.[/quote] With all due respect, your post shows the common failure to understand how COAH has gotten where it is today and how these groups can continue to go under the radar, but exert tremendous influence. There is no reason to say Dan is naive or cynical when anyone who is educated on COAH and reads about the court rulings understands the Fair Share Housing Center's role in COAH and the courts. The Fair Share Housing Center is not just three lawyers simply doing something in their spare time. It is one of if not the strongest lobbying groups specific to the COAH and affordable housing and also has funding through the builders and others who benefit from the FSHC making challenges. They were the driving force behind A-500 and the major legislation that was passed in 2008 that created the 3rd round nightmare. Yes, when you click on their website you see 3 people. However, when you click on my company's website they don't list all 60,000 some employees either. Take a look at their key accomplishments: http://fairsharehousing.org/about/accomplishments/[/quote] It is not 60,000 employees it is three full time lawyers and I will grant you a lot of others with pro bono work. But you are missing the point. The blame falls to our legislature which has consistently taken the easy way out for 30 years. It is analgous to blaming the NJEA for the economic mess the schools are in. Don't blame them for trying to get the maximum for there membership. Blame the legislature for caving in.[/quote]
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publius
Posted: Tue, Mar 9 2010, 12:30 am EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Guest wrote:
Quote:
Teapublicans unite against affordable housing
Can the moderator ban this type of useless drivel?
And to be clear, I'm referring to the disparage comment at end of last message. The moderator should be able to ban their IP or he will certainly loose his readership here.[/quote]
OOOH, My, but do the Patricians get their hairs up in a hackle when someone does express their opinions in condescending verbiage. No doubt a member of The Sons of The American Revolution. One whose ancestor fought and perhaps, died so that we may speak freely, but, who now wishes to sqelch and quash with whom they do not agree with.
How delightful!
Good Faith
Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2010, 10:48 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
It doesn't surprise me that you find it necessary to warp my point to make yours. I did not say all lobbying is bad (nor are all guns). I didn't say politicians are innocent. I simply believe lobbyists (and bloggers) have a moral obligation to act in good faith.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2010, 4:56 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Guest wrote:
To suggest that "lobbyists don't corrupt politicians, politics corrupts politicians" is like saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Guns are tools often used to kill people. Lobbyists are tools often used to corrupt politicians.
I blame the NJEA for using our children to shield their own greed. I blame the NJEA for protecting bad teachers. I blame the NJEA for spreading misinformation in their campaign to block reforms.
Have you ever called your representative? Then you are lobbying. There is no political system where lobbying does not exist. To your argument the poor politician is always innocent its those darn lobbyists.
NO. Lobbyist are always part of the political game and they exist on all sides of all issues. The buck stops with our political representatives not lobbyists.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2010, 4:40 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Guest wrote:
To suggest that "lobbyists don't corrupt politicians, politics corrupts politicians" is like saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Guns are tools often used to kill people. Lobbyists are tools often used to corrupt politicians.
I blame the NJEA for using our children to shield their own greed. I blame the NJEA for protecting bad teachers. I blame the NJEA for spreading misinformation in their campaign to block reforms.
If there were only a way to signify that you like a post list thisone, similar to Facebook, pressing the THUMBSUP. I would do that for this post.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2010, 8:53 am EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
To suggest that "lobbyists don't corrupt politicians, politics corrupts politicians" is like saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Guns are tools often used to kill people. Lobbyists are tools often used to corrupt politicians.
I blame the NJEA for using our children to shield their own greed. I blame the NJEA for protecting bad teachers. I blame the NJEA for spreading misinformation in their campaign to block reforms.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2010, 7:23 am EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
I never said they were 60,000. I said they had more than just the three lawyers, in fact I know a few attorneys who work or have worked with them.
I agree, there are a lot of others and that the legislature is the biggest issue. However, when the legislature does act to make changes or the Governor acts to make changes the FSHC is right there in court suing. While receiving funds from lobbying groups, you do not see the electrical union rushing to the court.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2010, 12:10 am EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
[quote="Guest"]
Guest wrote:
Dan Mulligan wrote:
The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against![/quote
This "group" consists of three lawyers. While I don't agree with them realize, we have lobbyists for builders. The municipalities and school boards have lobbying organizations. Dan is outraged that three lawyers lobby and file suits on behalf of affordable housing? I don't no if you are extraordinarily cynical or incredibly naive.
I think the problem is the way Trenton gets lobbied. I don't think the affordable housing advocates are a particularly strong lobby. The problem is Trenton did not want to pay for affordable housing, so they came up with a way for builders and municipalities to provide affordable housing. It is a deeply flawed system.
With all due respect, your post shows the common failure to understand how COAH has gotten where it is today and how these groups can continue to go under the radar, but exert tremendous influence. There is no reason to say Dan is naive or cynical when anyone who is educated on COAH and reads about the court rulings understands the Fair Share Housing Center's role in COAH and the courts.
The Fair Share Housing Center is not just three lawyers simply doing something in their spare time. It is one of if not the strongest lobbying groups specific to the COAH and affordable housing and also has funding through the builders and others who benefit from the FSHC making challenges. They were the driving force behind A-500 and the major legislation that was passed in 2008 that created the 3rd round nightmare.
Yes, when you click on their website you see 3 people. However, when you click on my company's website they don't list all 60,000 some employees either.
Take a look at their key accomplishments:
http://fairsharehousing.org/about/accomplishments/
It is not 60,000 employees it is three full time lawyers and I will grant you a lot of others with pro bono work. But you are missing the point. The blame falls to our legislature which has consistently taken the easy way out for 30 years.
It is analgous to blaming the NJEA for the economic mess the schools are in. Don't blame them for trying to get the maximum for there membership. Blame the legislature for caving in.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2010, 8:46 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Guest wrote:
Dan Mulligan wrote:
The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against!
Teapublicans unite against affordable housing
Your post makes no sense.
Look at the TC. The fight on COAH and the mandates is united in bipartisan support with Mr. Cook travelling to Trenton in his own time to fight the fight.
So either:
1) You're incredibly far far left since the TC is united
2) You think Mr. Stout, Mr. Stannard and Mr. Cook, Mr. Cody and Mr. Taylor are a Tea Party group running our town.
3) You just want to cause problems and flame the board.
The only options that make sense are that either your flaming to create problems for Dan posting information or are far far left in which case your views are as bad as the Tea Party people.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2010, 8:37 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
[quote="Guest"]
Dan Mulligan wrote:
The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against![/quote
This "group" consists of three lawyers. While I don't agree with them realize, we have lobbyists for builders. The municipalities and school boards have lobbying organizations. Dan is outraged that three lawyers lobby and file suits on behalf of affordable housing? I don't no if you are extraordinarily cynical or incredibly naive.
I think the problem is the way Trenton gets lobbied. I don't think the affordable housing advocates are a particularly strong lobby. The problem is Trenton did not want to pay for affordable housing, so they came up with a way for builders and municipalities to provide affordable housing. It is a deeply flawed system.
With all due respect, your post shows the common failure to understand how COAH has gotten where it is today and how these groups can continue to go under the radar, but exert tremendous influence. There is no reason to say Dan is naive or cynical when anyone who is educated on COAH and reads about the court rulings understands the Fair Share Housing Center's role in COAH and the courts.
The Fair Share Housing Center is not just three lawyers simply doing something in their spare time. It is one of if not the strongest lobbying groups specific to the COAH and affordable housing and also has funding through the builders and others who benefit from the FSHC making challenges. They were the driving force behind A-500 and the major legislation that was passed in 2008 that created the 3rd round nightmare.
Yes, when you click on their website you see 3 people. However, when you click on my company's website they don't list all 60,000 some employees either.
Take a look at their key accomplishments:
http://fairsharehousing.org/about/accomplishments/
Guest
Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2010, 8:05 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
[quote="Dan Mulligan"]The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against![/quote
This "group" consists of three lawyers. While I don't agree with them realize, we have lobbyists for builders. The municipalities and school boards have lobbying organizations. Dan is outraged that three lawyers lobby and file suits on behalf of affordable housing? I don't no if you are extraordinarily cynical or incredibly naive.
I think the problem is the way Trenton gets lobbied. I don't think the affordable housing advocates are a particularly strong lobby. The problem is Trenton did not want to pay for affordable housing, so they came up with a way for builders and municipalities to provide affordable housing. It is a deeply flawed system.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2010, 7:36 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Quote:
Teapublicans unite against affordable housing
Can the moderator ban this type of useless drivel?[/quote]
And to be clear, I'm referring to the disparage comment at end of last message. The moderator should be able to ban their IP or he will certainly loose his readership here.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2010, 7:29 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Guest wrote:
Dan Mulligan wrote:
The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against!
Teapublicans unite against affordable housing
Can the moderator ban this type of useless drivel?
Guest
Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2010, 6:35 pm EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
Dan Mulligan wrote:
The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against!
Teapublicans unite against affordable housing
Dan Mulligan
Posted: Thu, Mar 4 2010, 9:24 am EST
Post subject: Re: New COAH news
The 7.5% is very encouraging.
The real concern however in the affordable housing mess here in NJ is the Fair Share Housing Center of Cherry Hill
http://fairsharehousing.org/.
Its a group of lawyers who to quote the web site they have...
"Taking Legal Action for Affordable Housing in Communities of Opportunity"
This group basically fights every towns affordable housing plan which they submit to COAH. Including our last plan.
This is all this group does, this is their job.
This is what we are up against!
Guest
Posted: Wed, Mar 3 2010, 10:07 pm EST
Post subject: New COAH news
I think this makes total sense. Low income housing should not be 20-30-40% of housing. The 7.5% the senator proposes makes total sense.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/nj_sen_ray_lesniak_sponsors_bi.html
TRENTON — Nearly half of New Jersey’s towns would already be deemed as having enough affordable housing under an updated bill that would replace the way the state approaches housing for lower income residents.
The bill’s sponsor, Sen. Ray Lesniak (D-Union), said today it is not designed to produce more affordable housing but rather to comply with a landmark state Supreme Court ruling that towns could not block residents from access to affordable housing.
The current approach of assigning how much affordable housing each town must produce is under attack by the Legislature and the governor. It has been in place since 1985 but has not worked well, Lesniak said.
"It did produce affordable housing, but at an enormous expense," Lesniak said during a meeting with the Star-Ledger editorial board. "There’s a much better way to do it."
Under his legislation, towns would have to either restrict 7.5 percent of housing to lower income residents or have 33 percent of its housing in types of homes traditionally considered affordable, such as multifamily homes, mobile homes or public housing.
The measure would also require developers to make affordable housing from 5 to 20 percent of any new project. In addition, towns could also include incentives for developers to build affordable housing, such as allowing them to build more houses on smaller lots.
Housing advocates said the bill would weaken the state’s efforts to promote housing for people to live near their work, or to be able to afford housing at all.
"In our view, this is Senator Lesniak’s declaration that lower-income New Jerseyans are the enemy," said Kevin Walsh, associate director of Fair Share Housing Center, which has a mission to enforce the Supreme Court ruling in the 1975 case brought against the Mount Laurel township.
Last month, Fair Share won a ruling from a judge to freeze an executive order signed by Gov. Chris Christie that halted the work of the state Council on Affordable Housing. The governor has created also created an affordable housing task force.
Advocates were also puzzled by the notion that a home could be considered affordable simply because of its size or form. They said plenty of smaller apartments or attached townhouses in desirable areas could be very expensive and should not count as affordable, they said.
"It doesn’t make sense to us," said Diane Sterner, executive director of the Housing and Community Development Network.
The New Jersey Builders Association said they supported Lesniak’s efforts but did not have an immediate comment on the latest draft of the bill.
"I suspect that there’ll be tweaks," Lesniak said. "I suspect not everybody will be happy. But I haven’t had an important piece of legislation yet that makes everybody happy."