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[quote="Guest"]How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that [quote="Guest"]Why are the administrators getting a raise? Shouldn't they set the example and take a one year pay freeze?[/quote][/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 7:31 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How much do you make?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too. <br /> <br />I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%. <br /> <br />I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Many Educators have never worked in earnest in the private sector. It is natural for them to assume the grass is greener on the other side. Those who do leave education often find out it isn't. <br /> <br />Being an educator isn't easy, either. Green grass is hard to come by for almost everyone. That said, we're in a drought and EVERYONE needs to do their part.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 7:14 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">"How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that" <br /> <br />How about people who are retired and on a fixed income. now taxes go up, health care goes up. What about them?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 10:57 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How much do you make?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too. <br /> <br />I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%. <br /> <br />I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I'm the one who asked and I'm not in education. A principle, who is not a teacher, typically makes more than twice what the average teacher makes. And teachers don’t get 5% raises. Teacher's usually can't get promotions, don't get severance when they are terminated, etc. etc. You're correct that they get time off in the summer and often (but not always) have nice pension plans (which vary greatly from state to state), as do millions of other unionized employees in other professions. <br /> <br />You're making my point for me, which is that it is unfair to compare their situation on your terms because there are many differences. They have pros and cons versus other jobs. But some people seem to think you can ignore all the cons, look just at the pros and then compare them to their own situations. If you’d like to agree to never be eligible for a promotion, never receive a large raise when times are good or as your experience increases, not have your performance have any impact on your pay and make far less than the average person with a similar educational level and requirement, then you can start saying that if you have to take a pay cut so should they. Alternatively, if we want to start paying salaries competitive versus other industries with their education and skill levels, give raises and promotions for great performance, provide the type of severance for layoffs typical of the private sector, etc., then it makes sense to say that they should be held to the same standards in lean years that those of us in the private sector are. Right now their deal is they don’t get the same level of upside as others when times are good and they are protected more when times are bad. Personally I’m all for giving them competive wages and terms and hiring, firing and promoting based on performance, and I strongly oppose the unions. I just equally oppose those who think teachers have some great deal either because it’s just not supported by the full facts.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Check your "facts". Many of your points are simply not accurate. I believe educators are, and should be, compensated fairly. However, it is simply no longer true that their compensation lags behind the private sector averages. <br /> <br />Educators regularly receive raises and increases in the 0%-5% range, commensurate with those I have received (and their benefits are typically far greater). Teachers do get raises based on experience and additional education. They also have several paths for advancement (where do you think school administrators come from?). Teachers also have several opportunities to supplement their incomes within a typical 40-50 hour work week, especially when you factor in summer break. Your grandstand is made of popsicle sticks. <br /> <br />Regarding my responses- the original question was "how would you like a pay freeze in this economy?" I found that to be an ignorant question given the prevalence of job losses, furloughs and pay decreases recently. So, I shared my experience as a straight forward answer to an ignorant question. Also, the discussion was about administrative pay freezes and my job is most similar in responsibilities, experience and compensation to a school principal, so I drew a comparison to a principal. For the record, I would have loved a pay freeze.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 8:49 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How much do you make?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too. <br /> <br />I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%. <br /> <br />I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I'm the one who asked and I'm not in education. A principle, who is not a teacher, typically makes more than twice what the average teacher makes. And teachers don’t get 5% raises. Teacher's usually can't get promotions, don't get severance when they are terminated, etc. etc. You're correct that they get time off in the summer and often (but not always) have nice pension plans (which vary greatly from state to state), as do millions of other unionized employees in other professions. <br /> <br />You're making my point for me, which is that it is unfair to compare their situation on your terms because there are many differences. They have pros and cons versus other jobs. But some people seem to think you can ignore all the cons, look just at the pros and then compare them to their own situations. If you’d like to agree to never be eligible for a promotion, never receive a large raise when times are good or as your experience increases, not have your performance have any impact on your pay and make far less than the average person with a similar educational level and requirement, then you can start saying that if you have to take a pay cut so should they. Alternatively, if we want to start paying salaries competitive versus other industries with their education and skill levels, give raises and promotions for great performance, provide the type of severance for layoffs typical of the private sector, etc., then it makes sense to say that they should be held to the same standards in lean years that those of us in the private sector are. Right now their deal is they don’t get the same level of upside as others when times are good and they are protected more when times are bad. Personally I’m all for giving them competive wages and terms and hiring, firing and promoting based on performance, and I strongly oppose the unions. I just equally oppose those who think teachers have some great deal either because it’s just not supported by the full facts.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 7:01 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How much do you make?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too. <br /> <br />I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%. <br /> <br />I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 6:20 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How much do you make?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 6:19 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />How much do you make?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 6:09 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 4:14 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Why are the administrators getting a raise? Shouldn't they set the example and take a one year pay freeze?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />There is a big difference between a lay off and not getting a raise. There is a big difference between one keeping a job and not getting a raise and being laid off. Many people have not had raises. Why shouldn't we evaluate whether raises are deserved for all?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 3:54 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Why are the administrators getting a raise? Shouldn't they set the example and take a one year pay freeze?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Apr 16 2010, 10:05 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest 2 wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Budget Info wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I did a google search and found this site on the NJ School Board Association website. Some interesting information for education: <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.njsba.org/sb_notes/20090401/images/faq.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.njsba.org/sb_notes/20090401/images/faq.pdf</a> <br /> <br />I found the comment in bold interesting as there was discussion about a peer review by the TC. It appears a peer review is possible- i.e. a review and no cuts or even the BOE can choose not to make the cuts the TC advises as long as they adhere to the new tax levy if the budget is voted down. <br /> <br />Q. Our school budget will not increase the tax levy. Yet in <br />this economy, I’m concerned that voters will reject it. <br />What happens if the budget is defeated? <br /> <br />A. <span style="font-weight: bold">Defeated school budgets are reviewed by the municipal governing <br />body in consultation with the board of education. Generally, <br />the municipality may—but is not required to—reduce the size <br />of the school tax levy requested by the board. If it makes a cut, <br />the municipality must back up its decision by identifying corresponding <br />reductions in school expenditures. The school board <br />is not bound by these particular spending cuts, but it must live <br />with the tax levy certified by the municipal governing body.</span> <br />Under the School Funding Reform Act, a municipality may <br />not reduce the tax levy below the district’s minimum tax levy. <br />Therefore, when voters reject a budget with a tax levy no higher <br />than the state-required local share, the municipality cannot <br />make any reductions. This scenario occurred in a handful of <br />school districts last year. <br />School boards may apply to the state Department of Education’s <br />Division of Finance for restoration of reductions made by the <br />municipality. Last year, no district filed an application. The school <br />funding act provides the following bases for such applications: <br />• A school district with a proposed budget above adequacy <br />may apply for restoration only on the grounds that the <br />municipality’s reductions would negatively affect the district’s <br />long-term financial stability. <br />• A school district with a proposed budget at or below adequacy <br />may apply on the grounds that the municipality’s action <br />would negatively affect its long-term financial stability and/or <br />would prevent it from providing a thorough and efficient <br />education. The municipality must document “by clear and <br />convincing evidence” that each proposed line-item reduction <br />would not have an adverse impact on the district.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yes, the TC has to review the rejected budget, that is the procedure. They then certify the final amount. How the school chooses to spend that final amount is still up to them. The TC can say - cut x or y or z -- but in the end they only certify the final amount. <br /> <br />This review is just that a "review". Not a "peer" review. The TC are not "peers" with the BOE. They are two different bodies, with two different tasks. Why anyone thinks the TC has any hidden expertise to be able to review the budget any better than the BOE or the residents is beyond me. You elected representatives (fellow residents we know and trust, they are called the BOE) to review and make recommendations on a budget, have the decency to say "yes" or "no" on the merit of the proposed budget. Don't view the TC review as some "magical" extra step. <br /> <br />Also - a "no" vote brings in the State DOE. They too have to certify the final amount and THEY can make adjustments. Frankly, I don't trust the State DOE AT ALL. They have an agenda, and it does not include educating our children -- it includes breaking the NJEA. I don't like the idea that our state government is using our children as a pawn in this battle.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You're ignoring the "in consultation with the BOE". Do you really think the TC will not consider the views of the BOE if the budget is voted down? They could sit here and say hey, you know what the BOE did their best the budget is fine let it stand. They have the option to do that. They also have the option to say to the BOE, let's discuss this and this and we don't think it makes sense. The BOE can then say yes it does, so we'll cut this or that. Either way the BOE remains fully involved in the process through out. If my taxes are going up, then I am voting No. I am going to ask for another party to do a review. I feel a lot better knowing another party is reviewing the budget in detail and working in conjunction with the BOE. That is my opinion. I am not excluding the BOE and neither is the law. I think the TC has expertise because we have finance people on the TC. <br /> <br />You are fine with the BOE and the budget so vote yes. I am not supporting anyone vote yes or no. I am stating my view that I like a review to occur.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Remember however, that most people would view a "no" vote as "make cuts". Even if the TC agrees with the BOE they may feel that the "no" vote DEMANDS that they make more cuts, and they may then act AGAINST the recommendation of the BOE. So be careful - also remember - a NO vote triggers a review by the STATE and I DON"T TRUST THEM!</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 4:17 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest 2 wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Budget Info wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I did a google search and found this site on the NJ School Board Association website. Some interesting information for education: <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.njsba.org/sb_notes/20090401/images/faq.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.njsba.org/sb_notes/20090401/images/faq.pdf</a> <br /> <br />I found the comment in bold interesting as there was discussion about a peer review by the TC. It appears a peer review is possible- i.e. a review and no cuts or even the BOE can choose not to make the cuts the TC advises as long as they adhere to the new tax levy if the budget is voted down. <br /> <br />Q. Our school budget will not increase the tax levy. Yet in <br />this economy, I’m concerned that voters will reject it. <br />What happens if the budget is defeated? <br /> <br />A. <span style="font-weight: bold">Defeated school budgets are reviewed by the municipal governing <br />body in consultation with the board of education. Generally, <br />the municipality may—but is not required to—reduce the size <br />of the school tax levy requested by the board. If it makes a cut, <br />the municipality must back up its decision by identifying corresponding <br />reductions in school expenditures. The school board <br />is not bound by these particular spending cuts, but it must live <br />with the tax levy certified by the municipal governing body.</span> <br />Under the School Funding Reform Act, a municipality may <br />not reduce the tax levy below the district’s minimum tax levy. <br />Therefore, when voters reject a budget with a tax levy no higher <br />than the state-required local share, the municipality cannot <br />make any reductions. This scenario occurred in a handful of <br />school districts last year. <br />School boards may apply to the state Department of Education’s <br />Division of Finance for restoration of reductions made by the <br />municipality. Last year, no district filed an application. The school <br />funding act provides the following bases for such applications: <br />• A school district with a proposed budget above adequacy <br />may apply for restoration only on the grounds that the <br />municipality’s reductions would negatively affect the district’s <br />long-term financial stability. <br />• A school district with a proposed budget at or below adequacy <br />may apply on the grounds that the municipality’s action <br />would negatively affect its long-term financial stability and/or <br />would prevent it from providing a thorough and efficient <br />education. The municipality must document “by clear and <br />convincing evidence” that each proposed line-item reduction <br />would not have an adverse impact on the district.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yes, the TC has to review the rejected budget, that is the procedure. They then certify the final amount. How the school chooses to spend that final amount is still up to them. The TC can say - cut x or y or z -- but in the end they only certify the final amount. <br /> <br />This review is just that a "review". Not a "peer" review. The TC are not "peers" with the BOE. They are two different bodies, with two different tasks. Why anyone thinks the TC has any hidden expertise to be able to review the budget any better than the BOE or the residents is beyond me. You elected representatives (fellow residents we know and trust, they are called the BOE) to review and make recommendations on a budget, have the decency to say "yes" or "no" on the merit of the proposed budget. Don't view the TC review as some "magical" extra step. <br /> <br />Also - a "no" vote brings in the State DOE. They too have to certify the final amount and THEY can make adjustments. Frankly, I don't trust the State DOE AT ALL. They have an agenda, and it does not include educating our children -- it includes breaking the NJEA. I don't like the idea that our state government is using our children as a pawn in this battle.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You're ignoring the "in consultation with the BOE". Do you really think the TC will not consider the views of the BOE if the budget is voted down? They could sit here and say hey, you know what the BOE did their best the budget is fine let it stand. They have the option to do that. They also have the option to say to the BOE, let's discuss this and this and we don't think it makes sense. The BOE can then say yes it does, so we'll cut this or that. Either way the BOE remains fully involved in the process through out. If my taxes are going up, then I am voting No. I am going to ask for another party to do a review. I feel a lot better knowing another party is reviewing the budget in detail and working in conjunction with the BOE. That is my opinion. I am not excluding the BOE and neither is the law. I think the TC has expertise because we have finance people on the TC. <br /> <br />You are fine with the BOE and the budget so vote yes. I am not supporting anyone vote yes or no. I am stating my view that I like a review to occur.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest 2</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 3:30 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Rather than an across-the-board salary freeze, the union made concessions worth $135,000 that included salary reductions, </td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />At the school budget presentation, it was announced that the teachers would get a 2% raise instead of 4% increase that was in the contract for next year. The administrators also were getting at 2% increase. What are the salary reductions the this letter states was done?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />The union concession includes 2% of their raise (half of the contracted amount), their tuition reimbursement and their professional development. Note that the tuition reimbursement parts is MORE than their raises. Remember the raises are not a big number. Frankly, nothing compared to the total amount cut by the state. <br /> <br />The staff reductions were taken by not replacing two retirees and reducing many staff members to .9 <br /> <br />This is a 10% reduction in their salaries.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest 2</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 3:21 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Budget Info wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I did a google search and found this site on the NJ School Board Association website. Some interesting information for education: <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.njsba.org/sb_notes/20090401/images/faq.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.njsba.org/sb_notes/20090401/images/faq.pdf</a> <br /> <br />I found the comment in bold interesting as there was discussion about a peer review by the TC. It appears a peer review is possible- i.e. a review and no cuts or even the BOE can choose not to make the cuts the TC advises as long as they adhere to the new tax levy if the budget is voted down. <br /> <br />Q. Our school budget will not increase the tax levy. Yet in <br />this economy, I’m concerned that voters will reject it. <br />What happens if the budget is defeated? <br /> <br />A. <span style="font-weight: bold">Defeated school budgets are reviewed by the municipal governing <br />body in consultation with the board of education. Generally, <br />the municipality may—but is not required to—reduce the size <br />of the school tax levy requested by the board. If it makes a cut, <br />the municipality must back up its decision by identifying corresponding <br />reductions in school expenditures. The school board <br />is not bound by these particular spending cuts, but it must live <br />with the tax levy certified by the municipal governing body.</span> <br />Under the School Funding Reform Act, a municipality may <br />not reduce the tax levy below the district’s minimum tax levy. <br />Therefore, when voters reject a budget with a tax levy no higher <br />than the state-required local share, the municipality cannot <br />make any reductions. This scenario occurred in a handful of <br />school districts last year. <br />School boards may apply to the state Department of Education’s <br />Division of Finance for restoration of reductions made by the <br />municipality. Last year, no district filed an application. The school <br />funding act provides the following bases for such applications: <br />• A school district with a proposed budget above adequacy <br />may apply for restoration only on the grounds that the <br />municipality’s reductions would negatively affect the district’s <br />long-term financial stability. <br />• A school district with a proposed budget at or below adequacy <br />may apply on the grounds that the municipality’s action <br />would negatively affect its long-term financial stability and/or <br />would prevent it from providing a thorough and efficient <br />education. The municipality must document “by clear and <br />convincing evidence” that each proposed line-item reduction <br />would not have an adverse impact on the district.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yes, the TC has to review the rejected budget, that is the procedure. They then certify the final amount. How the school chooses to spend that final amount is still up to them. The TC can say - cut x or y or z -- but in the end they only certify the final amount. <br /> <br />This review is just that a "review". Not a "peer" review. The TC are not "peers" with the BOE. They are two different bodies, with two different tasks. Why anyone thinks the TC has any hidden expertise to be able to review the budget any better than the BOE or the residents is beyond me. You elected representatives (fellow residents we know and trust, they are called the BOE) to review and make recommendations on a budget, have the decency to say "yes" or "no" on the merit of the proposed budget. Don't view the TC review as some "magical" extra step. <br /> <br />Also - a "no" vote brings in the State DOE. They too have to certify the final amount and THEY can make adjustments. Frankly, I don't trust the State DOE AT ALL. They have an agenda, and it does not include educating our children -- it includes breaking the NJEA. I don't like the idea that our state government is using our children as a pawn in this battle.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 11:11 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">STILL MORE FAT TO TRIM VOTE NO</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Can you be more specific?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 10:13 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I heard that no cuts in staff...maybe staff time, but no jobs lost.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />A couple dozen people had to accept a change to part-time status varying from I believe 60% to 90%. I guess it remains to be seen if they leve to find full-time jobs instead and they have to find replacements.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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