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 Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 1:10 pm EDT Post subject: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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Brian Roach, Staff Writer
CRANBURY — After extensive debate between committee members and residents, the Township Committee voted Monday to include a referendum on the Nov. 2 ballot, asking whether residents would be interested in having the township look into having a municipally operated garbage collection service.
If residents give the go-ahead this November, then a second referendum would be needed next year to ask them whether they want the service. By that time, all costs and mechanics for the project would be known.
Right now, residents use private haulers to pick up their trash.
http://centraljersey.com/articles/2010/07/30/cranbury_press/news/doc4c51b6d89a328309498266.txt |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 1:22 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| I saw from the previous posts that they planned to do this two referendum thing but it seems silly to me. I am all for a public referendum to vote on whether we want it after the Township does the work to determine the facts and shares them with the public. I don't get the idea of voting to essentially look into something for a later vote. It's redundant, unless the "looking into" itself is going to be expensive or resource-intensive which is not what is being claimed in this case. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 1:59 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest wrote: | | I saw from the previous posts that they planned to do this two referendum thing but it seems silly to me. I am all for a public referendum to vote on whether we want it after the Township does the work to determine the facts and shares them with the public. I don't get the idea of voting to essentially look into something for a later vote. It's redundant, unless the "looking into" itself is going to be expensive or resource-intensive which is not what is being claimed in this case. |
I understand why. Look how many people were critics here. If the vote is a no, then there is no point wasting time. I think it's a good idea. I'd love to see a TC priority list and have an opportunity to give feedback. If the TC says we want to look at X and the residents say no, then the TC does not spend time doing it. Since they all have real jobs and this is volunteer I can also understand them not wanting to spend time on something no one wants. |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 3:28 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | I saw from the previous posts that they planned to do this two referendum thing but it seems silly to me. I am all for a public referendum to vote on whether we want it after the Township does the work to determine the facts and shares them with the public. I don't get the idea of voting to essentially look into something for a later vote. It's redundant, unless the "looking into" itself is going to be expensive or resource-intensive which is not what is being claimed in this case. |
I understand why. Look how many people were critics here. If the vote is a no, then there is no point wasting time. I think it's a good idea. I'd love to see a TC priority list and have an opportunity to give feedback. If the TC says we want to look at X and the residents say no, then the TC does not spend time doing it. Since they all have real jobs and this is volunteer I can also understand them not wanting to spend time on something no one wants. |
But a no vote essentially means, "no thanks, I don't even need to see the facts to make a snap decision and I vote based on my assumptions or emotions and not the facts."
I, for example, am likely to vote against the decision in the second referendum UNLESS the facts they uncover surprise me and change my mind. But I guess I will either vote yes on the first referendum or abstain since on principle I am opposed to voting for things without the facts that that is basically what you are saying to vote no the first vote. What possible pragmatic value are the voters adding to the first vote other than either their guy emotional reaction or possibly reacting to assumptions others have shared before facts are determined? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 3:35 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| look how many on this board did not want to look at it. I agree with what you're saying, but a lot of people will oppose just looking at things. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 3:39 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | I saw from the previous posts that they planned to do this two referendum thing but it seems silly to me. I am all for a public referendum to vote on whether we want it after the Township does the work to determine the facts and shares them with the public. I don't get the idea of voting to essentially look into something for a later vote. It's redundant, unless the "looking into" itself is going to be expensive or resource-intensive which is not what is being claimed in this case. |
I understand why. Look how many people were critics here. If the vote is a no, then there is no point wasting time. I think it's a good idea. I'd love to see a TC priority list and have an opportunity to give feedback. If the TC says we want to look at X and the residents say no, then the TC does not spend time doing it. Since they all have real jobs and this is volunteer I can also understand them not wanting to spend time on something no one wants. |
We elected our town council to do what? They can't even make a decision to investigate something? They need us to vote on it for them? Then why did we vote for them in the first place? What is their priority list? I can think of many other issues which are more important then trash. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 3:58 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest wrote: | | look how many on this board did not want to look at it. I agree with what you're saying, but a lot of people will oppose just looking at things. |
Did a lot of people on this Board not want to look at it? I read a lot of arguments opposed to doing it, not opposed to looking at it. I voiced my own reasons for believing it was likely a bad idea. But I didn't confuse that for wanting to prevent fact gathering or a proper vote on the facts. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 6:40 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| its a waste |
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Guest2
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 9:56 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it.
Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 10:02 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest2 wrote: | If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it.
Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price.
Just my 2 cents. |
Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 10:05 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest2 wrote: | If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it.
Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price.
Just my 2 cents. |
Now we have a Government take over of Trash? Just look at what a great job the town did at managing the sewer rates. |
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Guest2
Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 10:22 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest wrote: |
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Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days? |
If the private industries are doing so good, why did they need the government to bail them out? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 10:35 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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[quote="Guest"] | Guest2 wrote: | If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it.
Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price.
Just my 2 cents. |
Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days?[/quote
The state the country is in has nothing to do with bargaining power. Here is a thought experiment. Ignore the Cranbury government. Instead have all of the people who live in Cranbury as a group put out their garbage pick up for bid. Do you think we would get a better price than you individually. Obviously we would. Now have the town do it. Same answer. Now if you would like to organize the town and put it out for garbage bid please go do it.
As for the analogy to sewer it is a false analogy. We essentially sell our sewer services to another government entity. In the garbage case we are bidding the service out to private contractors.
The specifics of all of this are important. We should all play close attention to the details, but we should go forward and discover if a significant savings can be made. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:10 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| Guest2 wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
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Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days? |
If the private industries are doing so good, why did they need the government to bail them out? |
So you think government can do a better job then private industry? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:17 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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The analogy is not false you are distorting the facts to support your support of government taking on another service. Admit it you want government to run every facet of our lives.
Sewer rates have been mishandled and they are run by our government. Just imagine what will happen down the road once we add trash to our local government.
How about the people we elected focus on the issues that matter to us all and stop trying to distract us with this false need for trash reform.
[quote="Guest"] | Guest wrote: | | Guest2 wrote: | If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it.
Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price.
Just my 2 cents. |
Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days?[/quote
The state the country is in has nothing to do with bargaining power. Here is a thought experiment. Ignore the Cranbury government. Instead have all of the people who live in Cranbury as a group put out their garbage pick up for bid. Do you think we would get a better price than you individually. Obviously we would. Now have the town do it. Same answer. Now if you would like to organize the town and put it out for garbage bid please go do it.
As for the analogy to sewer it is a false analogy. We essentially sell our sewer services to another government entity. In the garbage case we are bidding the service out to private contractors.
The specifics of all of this are important. We should all play close attention to the details, but we should go forward and discover if a significant savings can be made. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:30 pm EDT Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? |
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| What fact have I distorted. |
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