Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012
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Police
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 8:03 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

The starting salary for an officer us 45k and they willget 1.5% raises over the next 5 yrs.

The problem I see us will I have someone when I need them. If I am being robbed, my wife assaulted, my child goes missing, or a suspicious person walking in my neighborhood or driving through I want them to respond. These are all issues last year that came up. So I don't care what I am paying for my safety at that point. We spend thousands on nice to have programs and ignore the need to have of police. There us gang activity in the warehouses, we have a lot if transient people with the hotels.

So while I can see Main St as sleepy. I want someone ready in an emergency.
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huh?
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 8:29 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Most dangerous Jobs wrote:
guest456 wrote:
The sad reality is that the police have priced themselves out of a job. It is not their fault they took what was offered. It has been allowed to happen to all public employees. Would love to have someone ,maybe the math guy, figure out what the cost for a police officer for his whole life including retirement and medical really is. Many people work at jobs just as demanding and more dangerous then police officers with alot less pay and no guaranteed pension. You know we already have 2 police chiefs retired and another coming soon. How soon are we going to pay more for the retired then the ones working? Or, are we already there? No, their job is not that dangerous the people catching your seafood is the most dangerous who has no guarantee pension with cost of living increases and medical. Time to catch on to reality!


I don't see police on the list.

Before you complain about punching the time clock, read this list for some perspective. Maybe the coffee stinks and you don't like your boss, but at least the threat of death or injury isn't perpetually hanging over your head. The order may change from year to year, but these are typically the most dangerous jobs in America.

1. Logger
2. Pilot
3. Fisher
4. Iron/Steel Worker
5. Garbage Collector
6. Farmer/Rancher
7. Roofer
8. Electrical Power Installer/Repairer
9. Sales, Delivery, and Other Truck Driver
10. Taxi Driver/Chauffeur

Source:
http://money.howstuffworks.com

http://money.howstuffworks.com/10-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america.htm


Why did you post a reply criticizing the previous poster when your list and links agree with them?
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questions
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 8:39 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Police wrote:
The starting salary for an officer us 45k and they willget 1.5% raises over the next 5 yrs.

The problem I see us will I have someone when I need them. If I am being robbed, my wife assaulted, my child goes missing, or a suspicious person walking in my neighborhood or driving through I want them to respond. These are all issues last year that came up. So I don't care what I am paying for my safety at that point. We spend thousands on nice to have programs and ignore the need to have of police. There us gang activity in the warehouses, we have a lot if transient people with the hotels.

So while I can see Main St as sleepy. I want someone ready in an emergency.


I personally don't have a lot of background in this locally, so I don't yet have a personal position on whether our police department is under staffed or paid. But your post raises several questions for me.

First, can you provide a link to your source for the fact that Cranbury police officers start at $45K and get only 1.5% raises for 5 years. I ask because while I have no knowledge of the stats in Cranbury I have read the average for the state and it would be impossible to reconcile that starting salary and salary increments with that average. Also, I presume your figure does not include overtime and my understanding, again from articles on the state average, is that overtime is extremely common and often substantially impacts overall annual compensation. Further, pension rates are based on peek comp inclusive of overtime. So the more relevant fact is not the base salary but the total annual comp inclusive of overtime and benefits. That's how it would be looked at in any other profession. It may well be their comp is still low after you factor in all the facts so I don't ask this as a leading question. Just interested in getting to all the relevant details.

Second, I find your example of calling for help during an ongoing robbery and having no one respond hard to believe. What is the point of having a department at all if they wouldn't prioritize emergency calls? Even if you have only 2 people on duty in your hypothetical example, wouldn't they respond? Even if they were already in the field on a non-emergency issue, I would think they would. Again, I'm not an expert on how it works but I would want to see more details about how the department functions before I would classify that as a credible possibility versus hyperbole.

Thank you.
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Cost Concious
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 8:45 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

In order to get costs in check why don't we merge or at least share services. The police department seems to be some Sacred Cow that we must hang on to no matter what. The reality is that it is very expensive and in this day and financial age may not be worth the cost. Every home rule advocate is really out of touch with reality by saying we need our OWN police department. The days of the few local Police officers who lived in town and knew us all and knew our children are gone. The days when they knew when your lights were are on and your car was in your driveway are gone forever. The duplication of administration, facilities and equipment is not realistic. One other item that really needs a look see is public works. Someday go over to Plainsboro and see their facility. We should be definitly sharing those services and that equipment. Most towns have so many pieces of equipment that gets limited use [chippers for example] they should be shared. We could still maintain the same personnel who know our town and just eliminate the facility drain. The spending of hundreds of thousands of dollars to build a new storage garage in the wetlands adjacent to the cedar brook is ridiculous and just shows how wasteful we can be with tax payer dollars.
We have to start to be more cost concious and here are a couple places to start. We don't have much say on Board of Education spending so lets start with what we have direct control over.
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Police
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 12:28 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

questions wrote:

First, can you provide a link to your source for the fact that Cranbury police officers start at $45K and get only 1.5% raises for 5 years. I ask because while I have no knowledge of the stats in Cranbury I have read the average for the state and it would be impossible to reconcile that starting salary and salary increments with that average. Also, I presume your figure does not include overtime and my understanding, again from articles on the state average, is that overtime is extremely common and often substantially impacts overall annual compensation. Further, pension rates are based on peek comp inclusive of overtime. So the more relevant fact is not the base salary but the total annual comp inclusive of overtime and benefits. That's how it would be looked at in any other profession. It may well be their comp is still low after you factor in all the facts so I don't ask this as a leading question. Just interested in getting to all the relevant details.

Second, I find your example of calling for help during an ongoing robbery and having no one respond hard to believe. What is the point of having a department at all if they wouldn't prioritize emergency calls? Even if you have only 2 people on duty in your hypothetical example, wouldn't they respond? Even if they were already in the field on a non-emergency issue, I would think they would. Again, I'm not an expert on how it works but I would want to see more details about how the department functions before I would classify that as a credible possibility versus hyperbole.

Thank you.


Here is the TC meeting note comment.

http://cranburytownship.org/TC-Documents/2011/TC_Minutes101011.pdf

Mayor Cody thanked Mr. Cook, Mr. Taylor and Ms. Marabello for getting the F.O.P. Contract done.

Mr. Taylor highlighted the base salary amounts in the contract for the next five-years: .995-year one (1),
.7 in year two (2), 1.91 in year three (3) 2% in year 2015 and 2% in year 2016. Mr. Taylor commended the Township Committee and F.O.P. for coming together for the benefit of the residents.

It was in the paper at the time that the starting salary was 45K.

In terms of the OT issue. It all comes down to staffing. If you have more officers on a patrol and one is out no one needs to come in. If you are operating at minimum levels and one is out then you need to bring one in on OT. So it's a balance as I see it you don't want to under staff, but you don't want to over staff.

In terms of your comment about priority. Yes, that is fine assuming there are no arrests made or your in a non-emergency situation.

Reading through the TC notes, it is clear that is not the case. For a number of issues 2 officers are required such as an arrest or assault. So if you have two officers watching a prisoner you have no one on the street until you get a third officer in on OT.
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$$$
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 4:24 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Police wrote:
questions wrote:

First, can you provide a link to your source for the fact that Cranbury police officers start at $45K and get only 1.5% raises for 5 years. I ask because while I have no knowledge of the stats in Cranbury I have read the average for the state and it would be impossible to reconcile that starting salary and salary increments with that average. Also, I presume your figure does not include overtime and my understanding, again from articles on the state average, is that overtime is extremely common and often substantially impacts overall annual compensation. Further, pension rates are based on peek comp inclusive of overtime. So the more relevant fact is not the base salary but the total annual comp inclusive of overtime and benefits. That's how it would be looked at in any other profession. It may well be their comp is still low after you factor in all the facts so I don't ask this as a leading question. Just interested in getting to all the relevant details.

Second, I find your example of calling for help during an ongoing robbery and having no one respond hard to believe. What is the point of having a department at all if they wouldn't prioritize emergency calls? Even if you have only 2 people on duty in your hypothetical example, wouldn't they respond? Even if they were already in the field on a non-emergency issue, I would think they would. Again, I'm not an expert on how it works but I would want to see more details about how the department functions before I would classify that as a credible possibility versus hyperbole.

Thank you.


Here is the TC meeting note comment.

http://cranburytownship.org/TC-Documents/2011/TC_Minutes101011.pdf

Mayor Cody thanked Mr. Cook, Mr. Taylor and Ms. Marabello for getting the F.O.P. Contract done.

Mr. Taylor highlighted the base salary amounts in the contract for the next five-years: .995-year one (1),
.7 in year two (2), 1.91 in year three (3) 2% in year 2015 and 2% in year 2016. Mr. Taylor commended the Township Committee and F.O.P. for coming together for the benefit of the residents.

It was in the paper at the time that the starting salary was 45K.

In terms of the OT issue. It all comes down to staffing. If you have more officers on a patrol and one is out no one needs to come in. If you are operating at minimum levels and one is out then you need to bring one in on OT. So it's a balance as I see it you don't want to under staff, but you don't want to over staff.

In terms of your comment about priority. Yes, that is fine assuming there are no arrests made or your in a non-emergency situation.

Reading through the TC notes, it is clear that is not the case. For a number of issues 2 officers are required such as an arrest or assault. So if you have two officers watching a prisoner you have no one on the street until you get a third officer in on OT.


What about pension cost? Healthcare Cost? all the other perks?

The $$$$ are way more then 45k a year per police man and it goes up up up every year I was told by one of the committee members.
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Employees
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 4:40 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Police and all full time employees get pension and medical. Tell us what the TC member said. The increases are right there in the notes. Police and all employees will contribute more on medical per NJ law.
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Replace
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 4:48 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

No one is saying add officers. The issue is keeping minimum levels as 2 officers retired. The cost of replacing them still saves the town. Plus the town removed retiree medical for new employees a few years ago and pension contributions cease when they retire just like in the private sector.
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Oldtimer
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 4:57 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

While nothing is "sacred", it is not a realistic consideration to further downsize or altogether get rid of our police department. The department functions at a bare minimum keeping 2 officers in the township to answer calls and handle basic responsibilities (traffic enforcement, school crossing etc..). It was nice living in Cranbury when there was only one officer working in the 1960's, 70's, and into the early 80's but those times are a distant memory of yesteryear. True Cranbury has very little violent crime however on the outskirts our village is a busy highway and a warehouse district that has significantly more demands for police, fire, and EMS than most residents realize. If we are looking at another relativelly small municipality ie Plainsboro, Monroe, or South Brunswick to take over policing in Cranbury it is likelly that eventually that municipality is going to be charging Cranbury nearly as much as it costs for Cranbury to maintain its own police department. An example of this is the failed attempt to dissolve Hightstown Police Department and have East Windsor take over. If there was a county police department or if Cranbury were "donut hole town" where there was a redundancy in services this might be different.
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Township Resident
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 25 2012, 11:06 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

All of the Township employee salaries can be found on the Asbury Park Press website (app.com) under Data Universe. Very interesting! Unfortunately, it doesn't yet list 2011 salaries.
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App
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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 26 2012, 8:22 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

That website is not correct. I have used it in the past and there are a lot of errors. The reason is Twp staffs often are paid from multiple budgets so App sometimes double counts or misses salary information.

It may be good or it may be way off on a person
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wcody



Joined: Tue, Mar 18 2008, 9:49 am EDT
Posts: 126
Location: Cranbury, NJ

PostPosted: Thu, Jan 26 2012, 9:57 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

I looked at the APP site, it looks fairly accurate for base salaries of township employees. It does not include overtime, benefits, etc. Township employee salaries are a matter of public record.
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App
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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 26 2012, 10:55 am EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Mr. Cody I just looked and in some cases the salaries are good and others it is off it seems based on Monroe where I live now and know some salaries. I have not asked for Cranbury data in a few years. Maybe Cranbury is different.

My suggestion for anyone who really wants the numbers. Go to town hall or call town hall. It is public data and you can get everything up to date. It's more reliable and you can even ask for total payroll data. If you see medical costs it will shock most people.

I actually do this every once and a while and since most employees in a town are hourly it is interesting to see year to year. It also can show you where OT is an issue.
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Stillthesame
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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 26 2012, 1:09 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Public salaries in Cranbury are not secrets. It is easier and more accurate to ask at town hall. APP is not always current. If u want to know what the cops are making for base salary and benefits you can get a cop of the police contract. You should also get copies of contracts from surrounding towns. You will see that Cranbury is on the low end of average for Middlesex and surrounding counties. Same thing with other municipal employees.
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Too Many Police
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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 26 2012, 8:13 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

Thank you for the App site its very informative and it shows how we have had too many police over the years for such a small town

Cranbury Police Officers by year

2010 18
2009 19
2008 19
2007 20
2006 18
2005 18
2004 20
2003 18
2002 17
2001 15
2000 14


http://php.app.com/njcrime/results2.php?COUNTY=Middlesex+County&MUNI=Cranbury+Twp.&YEAR=%25&Search=Search
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Breasonable
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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 26 2012, 8:55 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Notice of the Township Committee special budget meeting on January 21, 2012 Reply with quote

In 2012 there are 15 officers including the chief. The same number as in 2002 before hotels, numerous industrial/office parks, Liedke Drive, Four Seasons, etc..It costs each household less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks per day to maintain the police department.
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