CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March
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anon-q2r7
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PostPosted: Tue, Mar 7, 7:43 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

I wish you could post pictures on this site. Not one person in the library this evening. This needs to be stopped. Where is the money going to come from to maintain this new library? Parking lot snow removal, and grounds as well? Obviously it's not going to come from money that is generated by the library!
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anon-7o04
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PostPosted: Tue, Mar 7, 8:22 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

Per the projections from the library, they are expecting the township (i.e. taxpayers) to pay the increased new library costs for:

Trash
Landscape maintenance
Snow removal
Insurance


http://www.cranburylibraryfoundation.org/OpExp2016.pdf
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anon-7o04
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PostPosted: Tue, Mar 7, 8:29 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

anon-7o04 wrote:
Per the projections from the library, they are expecting the township (i.e. taxpayers) to pay the increased new library costs for:

Trash
Landscape maintenance
Snow removal
Insurance


http://www.cranburylibraryfoundation.org/OpExp2016.pdf


One other interesting assumption is that they expect to pay $4,000 per year in janitorial expenses. This is a little more than $10 per day, less than $100 per week (less than many people in Cranbury pay for their weekly maid service at home). This amount does not seem realistic. Especially in comparison to the $49,000 they pay the school for janitorial services for hours beyond when the school is open.

If a new library built, hidden expenses will continually come out and taxes will go up to support a new building.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 7:00 am EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

A few things.

1) the janitorial services paid to the school are due to the boiler not cleaning. You don't need to clean the library every day.

2) as the TC made clear in the last meeting the town does not have dumpsters and garbage so the library will need to find a way to cover that cost.

3) snow removal. The town PWs department plows all public lots. Since this lot will be used for the entire downtown it makes sense that they would plow it. Given the snow falls the last two years this won't be an issue.

4) landscape maintenenace. There library too will need to cover this per the TC. If the right trees are planted it won't be an issue.

Lastly I spoke over the last weekend to a TC member. They said only one person has ever come to a TC meeting or sent an email opposing the library. One person they even named this person. Yet they said there are always more supporters. That any official action is done by agenda. That the library and any other person can make a report at any time and the library does it. But the contract signed was in public on the agenda, the planning board meeting was in public on the agenda and the library's annual report is on the agenda.

They also said the meeting that Mr. Johnson deferred was the library choosing to show up after the planning board meeting. No action was taken that night other than the TC telling the library to work with residents. So the idea that some under handed event took place is ridiculous.


If this is not that one person who attended the meeting then I highly recommend you do more than post here and troll since you seem so concerned.
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anon-7o04
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 8:33 am EST    Post subject: Disgusiting Stinky Indivisible Library Reply with quote

anon-s6p5 wrote:
You don't need to clean the library every day.



EWWW! There will be bathrooms in the new building open to library patrons and others using the public meeting rooms. Food and drink could be brought into the meeting rooms leaving a mess (attracting bugs and rodents). Not cleaning public facilities every day will leave a mess.

IF YOU WANT TO USE THE NEW INDIVISBLE LIBRARY - HOLD YOUR NOSE.

There is not a lot of public feedback because the township committee is being dishonest to people stating they do not support taxpayer funds for the new library while a lot of taxpayer money will be used. The library and TC do not want to have a referendum or hold public meeting to honestly discuss the financials and implications because it would awaken the general public and feedback is not desired so this can be rammed through. Was there a TC meeting with an agenda item approving the new library going out to bid? Responding at a TC meeting is not practical since there are so many and the agendas may change.
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anon-88r5
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 10:06 am EST    Post subject: Re: Disgusiting Stinky Indivisible Library Reply with quote

anon-7o04 wrote:
anon-s6p5 wrote:
You don't need to clean the library every day.



EWWW! There will be bathrooms in the new building open to library patrons and others using the public meeting rooms. Food and drink could be brought into the meeting rooms leaving a mess (attracting bugs and rodents). Not cleaning public facilities every day will leave a mess.

IF YOU WANT TO USE THE NEW INDIVISBLE LIBRARY - HOLD YOUR NOSE.

There is not a lot of public feedback because the township committee is being dishonest to people stating they do not support taxpayer funds for the new library while a lot of taxpayer money will be used. The library and TC do not want to have a referendum or hold public meeting to honestly discuss the financials and implications because it would awaken the general public and feedback is not desired so this can be rammed through. Was there a TC meeting with an agenda item approving the new library going out to bid? Responding at a TC meeting is not practical since there are so many and the agendas may change.


You can go to any TC meeting and speak at Public comment.

The library supporters don't seem to have any issue.

The TC had an agenda where they entered into a contract with the library for what was required. They stated that the library could go to bid, but had to come back before the TC before approval to break ground.

It is very practical to send an email. How many posts have you made on this subject and as another poster stated only one person has made a comment against it.

It is very practical to go to any TC meeting, they are held twice a month and some last 30 minutes. Go to a meeting and speak at public comment.

You are just a troll looking for a rise.

And the poster did not say the janitorial services would not be performed. Just that certain services are not needed every day.
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anon-5p0n
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 1:43 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

anon-s6p5 wrote:

They also said the meeting that Mr. Johnson deferred was the library choosing to show up after the planning board meeting. No action was taken that night other than the TC telling the library to work with residents. So the idea that some under handed event took place is ridiculous.


Whoever gave you the above info misinformed you, or at the very least did quite a bit of spin. The sequence was as follows:

There was a PB meeting that included the library where they were asking the PB to vote on endorsing the location change of the library and the parking. They did not notify any of the neighbors in the immediate proximity as they should have. However the neighbors found out by word of mouth and approximately 50 came to the meeting, most of them to object to the location of the parking lot and to express support for an alternative plan that has been sketched out by a neighbor who was an architect.

While some of the library representatives and most of the PB members were supportive of considering this proposed alternative, one library representative spoke assertively against any further delay in the vote and did not want the new plan considered. Some of the PB members were unhappy about the lack of notification which the same library representative tried to deny was true (it was). Most of the PB members clearly expressed a desire to see the library work with the neighbors and come back to them. Mr. Johnson voiced support for the lone library representative that wanted to vote immediately and scolded the audience for not coming to previous meetings then incorrectly stated that they had always been on the TC agenda.

Since most of the PB wanted to defer it, that's what happened. And there was a specific understanding the library would work with the neighbors in the meantime. Immediately after the meeting, however, Mr. Johnson met with the library representatives and discouraged them from meeting with the neighbors and suggested they come to the next TC meeting. He did not put the Library on the TC public agenda. At his suggestion, they did not meet with the neighbors prior to the meeting. The neighbors again found out there word of mouth that the Library would be discussed, as an off agenda item, at the TC meeting, so some of them attended. Fortunately in both cases some of those involved with the library were among the neighbors and friendly to their concern and let them know.

Following the TC meeting the library starting working with the neighbors and did so very openly and graciously and they came to a design that was only slightly different than what the architect neighbor previously proposed. In the process they also came up with a better solution for the drainage/retaining basin which had been another concern during the first TC meeting because the previous plan called for an expensive and complex underground system under the parking lot. At the subsequent PB meeting, this revised plan was endorsed, and then after that by the TC. The only thing the PB was being asked to do however was accept the variations of the plan from the Master Plan. It wasn’t in the PB’s scope to address the merits of the project or its funding sources.

The library representatives are neighbors and most are quite open about the plans and happy to discuss it. However, there is a subset of those involved on the library and TC side who are deeply cynical about open public process and prefer to accomplish most things in secret then expose them to the public process at the last possible stages, believing in their minds that they are acting in the best paternal interests of the Township. And they really hate being questioned or challenged, which you can see come out occasionally in public meetings.
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anon-88r5
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 2:10 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

So let's be clear.

1) There was a PB meeting is an agenda item and is not the TC.

2) The library has presented their plan at every annual report to the TC which is always on the agenda. So Mr. Johnson is correct.

3) You're saying Mr. Johnson 1/5th of the TC met and therefore the whole TC was involved in whatever meeting occurred after the meeting and that Mr. Johnson was not simply offering an opinion.

4) As has been said here numerous times the Library can come in and make a presentation at any time. The Library did come in per the notes, but the only direction was that the TC told the library to work with their neighbors. No action was taken and the TC cannot tell the library or anyone else not to speak as that is illegal.

Further, the point you're talking about is not a TC jurisdiction issue it is a PB as you also verify. So the library coming and presenting a plan to the TC over the site didn't have any relevance because the TC has no authority which is why the PB went back.

5) The step after the PB where the TC had authority was on the agenda and discussed and the TC entered into an open contract.

What you are saying is that the TC should illegally tell the Library they cannot talk or anyone else who wants to talk on the subject.

Where there has been a TC action the item is on the agenda.

Again, unless you are that one person Go to a meeting or send an email. No one cares about your thoughts.
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anon-5n62
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 4:43 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

There seem to be a lot of meetings with partial agendas which make it very confusing for an average resident to follow and provide their opinion. One off comments won't do much good.

Why is the library and township committee so reluctant to have a public hearing on this important topic whether a new library should be built.

This reluctance makes the whole situation very suspicious.
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anon-1662
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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 8, 5:08 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

There hasn't been. The library has an annual meeting with the TC, the TC had an agenda item on the contract they signed, there will be an agenda item when the library presents the bids to the town.

If people don't go you can't blame the TC. You can't blame the TC if the library wants to exercise their right to speak. Exercise yours and speak.
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anon-n53s
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PostPosted: Thu, Mar 9, 3:06 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

How is one supposed to plan time to attend meetings to give feedback if there is not advance announcements to agenda. It is late Thursday afternoon and there is no agenda posted for Monday's meeting posted on the town website. Perhaps this is all planned and scheduled on the secret Indivisible site the Mayor and Deputy Mayor are part of. Public input does not appear to be welcomed.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Thu, Mar 9, 6:38 pm EST    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: New library project to go out for bid in March Reply with quote

anon-n53s wrote:
How is one supposed to plan time to attend meetings to give feedback if there is not advance announcements to agenda. It is late Thursday afternoon and there is no agenda posted for Monday's meeting posted on the town website. Perhaps this is all planned and scheduled on the secret Indivisible site the Mayor and Deputy Mayor are part of. Public input does not appear to be welcomed.


How do the TC members who volunteer plan every other Monday? I agree that it would be nice to have the agenda out earlier. But as stated prior you can go to any TC meeting and comment on the library.

The agendas are usually posted the Friday before and have been for years.
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