9:30pm closing time for main st businesses
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No way!-4p01
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 20, 9:36 pm EDT    Post subject: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

Town council - The 9:30 pm closing time on Main is ridiculous . Long line of customers At Gil &! Bert's cut off because of the $500 fine if open even 1 minute past 9:30pm. Why is this happening? it doesn't help the businesses and infuriates the customers !
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 20, 10:10 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

From what I understand Gil and Bert's as a condition of establishing their opening when they started agreed to a 9:30 closing time and saw no issue with that as a condition when they began operating. That they did not adhere to their agreement and that the town did not notice until now was fortunate for them.

The 9:30pm closing was established prior to Gil and Bert's by ordinance to balance outdoor seating with residents who live in the down town. And to ensure they are not subject to crowd noise when trying to put little ones to bed or are trying to relax at night.

What is the difference between. Long line at 9:30 or at 10 when they closed before. Is 30 minutes that big a deal?

No need to get angry at the town. The business voluntarily agreed to the hours when they applied to the town.
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anon;oqs6-np85
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PostPosted: Tue, Jun 20, 11:51 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

The condition of approval of the board that included 9:30 closing really was a reasonable way to consider and mitigate the possibe impact of the business on the nearby property owners.The property was never used as a business prior to the conversion of the private home to a business. The business has blossomed to the point of being somewhat of a nusiance to the immediate other property owners. The noise and cars constantly coming and going along with the impaired use of the public sidewalk that has become impassible at times has really ended up being an unintended detrimental consequence of a successful business. If the business had interior service like Teddy's or the pizzeria it might not be as much of a problem for the folks living nearby.
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anon-4np6
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 21, 8:22 am EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

Also, the TC does not get involved with operating hours that is a zoning issue. In fact if they did try to negotiate behind the scenes it would be a big legal issue.

You can't fault the town for adhering to the agreement the business signed. They have to treat everyone equally.

Once people get familiar with the hours there won't be any issue. People will simply adjust to the hours. Just as they did if they wanted a cone at 10:15 and the store was closed prior. This is a transition period.

I give credit to Gil and Bets for explaining why they need to close and hopefully people will understand.
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anon-102q
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 21, 9:45 am EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

There is only one person that really gets upset when a business is successful and that's the zoning official. He does nothing but break business owners chops. And people wonder why we can fill vacant shops or even the new ones on south main.
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anon-6n05
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 21, 10:05 am EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

The zoning officer only adheres to the law. If people are violating the law which means following their resolution for approval on how to operate that is not the zoning officers issue. He can't chose what laws to follow.
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anon-5p0n
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 21, 1:34 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

anon-102q wrote:
There is only one person that really gets upset when a business is successful and that's the zoning official. He does nothing but break business owners chops. And people wonder why we can fill vacant shops or even the new ones on south main.


So when the Zoning Officer does what he was hired to do which is enforce the zoning laws he had nothing to do with making, by your definition he's the problem and not the people who made the law?

I guess if a police officer is called to break up a noisy party after complaints, that's their fault too.
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anon-54r5
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 21, 2:52 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

anon-5p0n wrote:
anon-102q wrote:
There is only one person that really gets upset when a business is successful and that's the zoning official. He does nothing but break business owners chops. And people wonder why we can fill vacant shops or even the new ones on south main.


So when the Zoning Officer does what he was hired to do which is enforce the zoning laws he had nothing to do with making, by your definition he's the problem and not the people who made the law?

I guess if a police officer is called to break up a noisy party after complaints, that's their fault too.


And not the people who are breaking the law by violating agreements they made with the township.
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anon-52p8
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PostPosted: Wed, Jun 21, 6:55 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

anon-102q wrote:
There is only one person that really gets upset when a business is successful and that's the zoning official. He does nothing but break business owners chops. And people wonder why we can fill vacant shops or even the new ones on south main.
How so? I would imagine all the people who live in the area are not upset. It's only a half hour no big deal.
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anon-q2r7
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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 22, 9:51 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

No way!-4p01 wrote:
Town council - The 9:30 pm closing time on Main is ridiculous . Long line of customers At Gil &! Bert's cut off because of the $500 fine if open even 1 minute past 9:30pm. Why is this happening? it doesn't help the businesses and infuriates the customers !
Residents come first. People who live downtown have to put up with a lot of noise that they did not have to 10 years ago. After viewing the township code this applies to all business that have outside seating. Checks are to be on table by 9:30 so nobody is to be at tables by 10:00.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 23, 12:06 am EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

The TC and PB really need to think of residents and not just dollar signs. Amazon and all the warehouses are going to add traffic.

Old Cranbury Rd and Old Trenton Road get congested. Look at both stop lights at rush hour on old Trenton-- by Main St and the old Seim club. Now we'll have 50+ townhouses, apartments and shops. The traffic and noise is going to impact homes in this area.

The problem is the TC members don't live in these impacted areas nor do the PB or ZB members so they don't care. If they lived in Cranbury Green or in four seasons they would care. But since they don't it doesn't bother them if Main st, Old Cranbury Rd and Old Trenton Rd are blocked with traffic and noise.

The truth is they feel like they are losing money if they don't just accept what a developer wants. Yet, there is no issue without that revenue today and the town is in the stronger negotiating position. The TC and PB control variances, ordinances, etc...they can say here is what we want and what we'll allow. But they do not do that. They cower in fear of a warehouse not being built or a store being empty. At some point that warehouse will fill and that store will rent. That is the law of economics it is just at what price. So why sell out the town so a developer or store owner can make a few more dollars.

It's time these people represent the voter.
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anoqs;8-np85
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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 23, 12:06 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

Unfortunately with the present Committee membership there is no type of development that is unacceptable. Any rateable regardless of the impact on the taxpaying public nor adverse impact on the environment is too great . The board members who approve these applications are under the thumb of the people who appoint them [The Committee] . Even after the application is approved they fail to enforce the conditions of approval because we are so development friendly. For example: do you ever smell that acrid smell on main street or in the park,at the Cranbury Inn or The First Presbyterian Church and Brainerd Lake? That smell comes from a facility that MANUFACTURES products on Santa Fe way in the "office/warehouse zone". The township knows they are in violation but fails to stop them from smelling up the town. The Committee motto is No Rateable Is Unacceptable-----------
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anon-370q
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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 23, 8:57 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

Some of the posters here seem to have a simplistic view of what a Township can legally do about development. NJ laws and courts are incredibly developer friendly. Just ask West Windsor that spent over a decade and millions of taxpayer dollars trying to limit a major housing development only to completely lose in court and get stuck with a thousand homes and almost no public infrastructure confessions from the developer. Landowners can develop warehouses in the industrial zones of town as-of-right. When they come to the Township for specific zoning and planing reviews, it's usually for relatively modest variances from what is already allowed and the legal standards are such that if the Township refused they usually could develop without them or if not sue and more often than not win in court. So usually the whole approval process is a dance, an effort to negotiate concessions that developers consider cheaper and more expedient than fighting and eventually winning their rights in court.

Also, Cranbury doesn't exist in a bubble. There are many warehouse projects in Monroe, South Brunswick and East Windsor that generate traffic through our town but that traffic brings nothing to our tax base. Even if our TC tried to obstruct legal development, the users would just move one town over and their trucks would still end up on Route 130, etc.

It's easy to armchair quarterback the idea that you can just say no to business development without any comprehension of the legal or tax implications of doing so. If you really think you have some magic bullet solution to prevent development, not impact our taxes and avoid expensive legal challenges from property owners, why not go to a meeting or volunteer for a board. They usually have to beg people to take the positions, so I'm sure they would love to hear from someone with a great plan. You could probably make a lot of money as a consultant for other township's too with your special plan, since most townships struggle with this. Everyone wants to be small, resident-centric, traffic-lite and still have lower taxes.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Fri, Jun 23, 9:32 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

The above post seems to be black and white. That you have to say yes.

That is not accurate. The township has used land preservation techniques quite well to limit development. However, because former TC members lived on the north side they sold out the south side of town. There was an opportunity to preserve the Updike tract and former TCs did not act while at the same time preserving the barclay tract.

You have the Highpoint development and 130. The TC is actively expanding the potential approved uses to attract rateables while doing so at the expense of the residents. Will a 50k tax be more beneficial than the traffic it brings in? I heard that at least one member wanted to allow for the use of fast food like Burger King on 130 which for decades was always a non-permitted use. Do we sacrifice prior long term planning to allow for a 50k tax gain?



So the fact is there are ways to build sesnisbly without selling out the town.

Look at our warehouse area compared to other towns like east Windsor where there is no plan and no design. The PB worked hard to ensure our warehouse district looked nice and was unobtrusive.

The TC and PB does not have to always allow for variances. A property owner can sue, but if the zoning is not approved they will not win unless the use by law is deemed an inherently beneficial use.

I doubt many people ever considered essentially a 50 townhouse development and strip mall to be built on old Trenton Rd. Yet the TC did a redevelopment plan and then further changed use to allow for medical buildings when the developer asked. The TC by law did not have to say yes. They did so for the cash.

So yes there are legal issues, but at the same time the town has control. West Windsor's major build was a result of planning vs preservation and the affordable housing lawsuits.

The issue is not chasing every dollar, but sensible exceptions that protect the residents and character.
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anon-5qqq
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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 24, 5:54 am EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

The TC needs to increase revenues for their Indivisible Library project. They need the additional $2 Million to build the library and the ongoing revenue to support a larger library and more revenue to the school who loses the library revenue and will need to spend to repurpose the existing library space.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 24, 10:18 am EDT    Post subject: Re: 9:30pm closing time for main st businesses Reply with quote

anon-5qqq wrote:
The TC needs to increase revenues for their Indivisible Library project. They need the additional $2 Million to build the library and the ongoing revenue to support a larger library and more revenue to the school who loses the library revenue and will need to spend to repurpose the existing library space.


wow, so many falsehoods...
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